Your 2014 Hall Of Fame Ballot

[TribeFanInNC]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Alomar couldn't lick Joe Morgan's boots, though maybe he could spit polish them.......

I can't believe we even had to have this conversation. Read the linked SI.com article. Morgan WAR = 103, Alomar WAR = 63. Done.

The difference of 40 WAR is equivalent to 8-10 years of all-star performance.

[Orcin]

Updated through this morning (34 voters):

Maddux 100%
Biggio 79%
Glavine 79%
Thomas 79%
Bagwell 76%

**********

Raines 68%
Mussina 53%
Piazza 53%
Schilling 50%

[rpriske]

Alomar was a great player.

Morgan was one of the all-time best. It is no insult to saying Alomar was not at the level of Joe Morgan. It is simply fact.

It is like saying Paul Molitor was good, but he was no Ted Williams.

Uh, yeah. No kidding.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

Not really. He was never a backup until he was washed up. Donlin's half-seasons and outright not playing at all some years can be attributed to the fact that he was either: 1) Drunk, 2) Assaulting various people with or without firearms, 3) Getting involved with an endless stream of starlets and showgirls and chasing them all over the country instead of playing baseball, at which he was a star, or 4) a combination of any of the previous three. I'm not saying he should be in the HoF. But had he had as much interest in it as he did the other three things, he undoubtedly would have been.

Thanks for posting this, you saved me the trouble. I was a little outraged that someone though Turkey Mike was a backup. Someone needed to set the record straight on that, appreciate your doing so.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Thanks for posting this, you saved me the trouble. I was a little outraged that someone though Turkey Mike was a backup. Someone needed to set the record straight on that, appreciate your doing so.

Bottom line he played 2 full seasons whatever the reasons for him not playing full seasons may be.

[John Madden]

I like when people walk back points they made that were false by saying "it doesn't matter." Well, then why'd you say it in the first place?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by The Game

Bottom line he played 2 full seasons whatever the reasons for him not playing full seasons may be.

1049 games and 3854 ab's is hardly only "2 full seasons".

EDIT: I guess you mean he only played in most of the games in a given season in two full seasons, which is fair enough, though it'd have been more accurate to make that 4 seasons. Either way, the relative shortness of his overall career is certainly the reason he isn't in the HOF.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by John Madden

I like when people walk back points they made that were false by saying "it doesn't matter." Well, then why'd you say it in the first place?

Shame on me for not being clear enough for your taste. Not my fault you want to take a player that would not make the Hall even had had a .700 avg over 12 seasons when he only avg 87 games per season over 12 years with only 2 seasons with 150+ games. Had you used Van Haltren it would have shut me up pretty quickly.

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by The Game

Shame on me for not being clear enough for your taste. Not my fault you want to take a player that would not make the Hall even had had a .700 avg over 12 seasons when he only avg 87 games per season over 12 years with only 2 seasons with 150+ games. Had you used Van Haltren it would have shut me up pretty quickly.

Did I say he should be in the Hall? Must have been an alias I'm unaware of. All I said was that he hit (well) over .300 for his career and is not in the HoF. I also said he was "one of" the players that did.

[John Madden]

Also, using 150+ games as a benchmark when the schedule was 140 games on the low end, and 154 at the top end is more than a little ridiculous.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by John Madden

Did I say he should be in the Hall? Must have been an alias I'm unaware of. All I said was that he hit (well) over .300 for his career and is not in the HoF. I also said he was "one of" the players that did.

And I should have been specific, forgot how people on here like to see one side and not the whole picture. You sure you dont work for FOX News?

[The Game]

Originally Posted by John Madden

Also, using 150+ games as a benchmark when the schedule was 140 games on the low end, and 154 at the top end is more than a little ridiculous.

Donlin played in 59% of the games his teams played. Did not play in 3 full seasons. which I did not count.
Only 1900 - 1903 did the teams he played on play less then 150 games. 140, 133, 140, 139. Of his 12 seasons the teams he played on avg 148 games. Considering his next highest after 150 is 126 games,150 was a good place to start.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

1049 games and 3854 ab's is hardly only "2 full seasons".

EDIT: I guess you mean he only played in most of the games in a given season in two full seasons, which is fair enough, though it'd have been more accurate to make that 4 seasons. Either way, the relative shortness of his overall career is certainly the reason he isn't in the HOF.

3 yes not 4. missing 19 games is still alot.

[John Madden]

The Hall of Fame's Standard, and Its Biggest Problem | FanGraphs Baseball

[Orcin]

That's a great article. Thanks for sharing it.

By the way, I will "close" the voting on this thread on December 31 (same as real HoF) and publish the results shortly thereafter, so there's still time to elect some of these players born in the 60's.

[CONN CHRIS]

My 10:

Bagwell
Bonds
Clemens
Glavine
Maddox
Martinez, E
Mussina
Thomas
Trammell

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by Orcin

That's a great article. Thanks for sharing it.

Was talking to Weimer about the article, and we both agreed that it was one of those articles that lays out an argument mathematically that we both have been struggling to put into words. I've always loved FanGraphs, but these articles definitely strengthen that opinion.

[rudel.dietrich]

The baseball HOF has turned into an utter embarrassment and I no longer even recognize it as the legitimate HOF of baseball.

There are about 30 players who need to be elected but year after year the backlog keeps growing and unless drastic changes are taken we are going to start seeing more and more shocking snubs.

I would be for a complex computer algorithm being written that would select players.
The writers association is an utter sham.

[ZiggyPop]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

...
The writers association is an utter sham.

And so is this board if we elect 5+ guys and Raines doesn't get in...

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by ZiggyPop

And so is this board if we elect 5+ guys and Raines doesn't get in...

Yep. We're barely any better than the BBWAA at this point...

Cmon guys, Raines and Trammell!