Example of bad defensive AI

RchW · 12-15-2013, 01:54 PM

This has to be improved.

Abbott the defensive sub was inserted at SS his 3rd best defensive position. He should have played 3B his best defensive position plus his set position. Bransington the starting SS, his 2nd best defensive position was moved to his 3rd best defensive position 3B. All this was done for the 8th and 9th.

Moving the player at 2B would not have helped.

The AI did the right thing in general but I can't understand why it would weaken the defense at two IF spots late in the game. I suspect this is a "best batting lineup" paradigm; something that does not belong in the 8th inning of a game where we were leading 7-2.

Gil Thorp · 12-15-2013, 03:33 PM

This type of thing happens so regularly that the real challenge is to find examples where the AI makes the right moves. This, and the fact that the AI loads its bench with terrible fielders instead of guys that are good fielders at multiple positions drives me nuts and really needs to be one of the top priorities to be improved before we start to consider all the nut job ideas that show up in the suggestion thread.

Westheim · 12-15-2013, 04:15 PM

The defensive AI often does not really sparkle with genius. In my league, there's a player with blue or green ratings at all outfield positions that several AI teams have insisted on playing at third base - for years! He is *terrible* at third base. He spent two seasons with my Raccoons, where I used him as an outfielder - fine defense, something everybody can enjoy. Once he left for elsewhere, he was deployed at third base again.

I also see so many shortstops with orange ratings for that position that make 20+ errors a season. You can't have everything, but middle infield should be the area where you want as much defense as possible.

Leo_The_Lip · 12-16-2013, 01:14 PM

Last night I had a bizarre happening. I'd brought up a great defensive CF prospect in September. A lefty batter, he started a game against a RH pitcher. In the top of the ninth, up 12-1 with the bases loaded, the other team brought in a LOOGY to face him. So the AI sends up a right-handed pinch hitter who is 3 out of 20 in CF and leaves him in the game for the bottom of the ninth.

So crapola defensive AI.

Pinch-hit AI? Grand Salami, 16-1 victory.

You can't win even when you win.

RchW · 12-16-2013, 01:34 PM

More bad subs. This is worse because Sykes ( a true 2B) had never played SS before this season. The AI obviously thinks that Bransington must not be entitled to play SS when another warm body is present. I know the AI thinks Bransington should be the 2B. If so we need some sort of check box (not force start) that tells the AI this guy is the SS like it or not.

I do find it funny that in both examples the PH hit a HR. Edit; oops not right, the one below was a double.

ThePretender · 12-16-2013, 06:28 PM

It's really important that they work on defensive lineups for the 8/9 innings in the next OOTP. Otherwise you end up with poor decisions like this. Honestly the best solution would be to have an additional "lineup" in one of the menus where you can choose your final defensive alignments. Something simple like that could be huge for online teams, and FINALLY allow us to take advantage of players with multiple position eligibility.

Think of real life Zobrist - it'd be nice to be able to shift players around from 2B to say RF and have the defensive replacement show up at 2B instead of being forced to either replace the current RF or current 2B.

Honorable_Pawn · 12-16-2013, 06:48 PM

The in-game AI definitely sucks. And it sucks at roster management. Sorry, I still love the game but thought a little honesty might be more productive at this point.

So...

I'd agree that we need to hold off on more bells and whistles. How about we get the basics right first. We don't need no stinking improvements anywhere else. We don't need no stinking new features (selling points).

Let's save the gimmicks for 16. The best selling point, to me, would be to improve the in-game AI and roster management. That, in and of itself, should be the new selling point!!

Let's get under the hood and replace that damn squeaky fan-belt before we go out and buy a bunch of useless shiny 20" rims.

$0.02

12-15-2013, 01:54 PM	#1
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	Example of bad defensive AI This has to be improved. Abbott the defensive sub was inserted at SS his 3rd best defensive position. He should have played 3B his best defensive position plus his set position. Bransington the starting SS, his 2nd best defensive position was moved to his 3rd best defensive position 3B. All this was done for the 8th and 9th. Moving the player at 2B would not have helped. The AI did the right thing in general but I can't understand why it would weaken the defense at two IF spots late in the game. I suspect this is a "best batting lineup" paradigm; something that does not belong in the 8th inning of a game where we were leading 7-2. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit

12-15-2013, 04:15 PM	#3
Westheim Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Germany Posts: 14,206	The defensive AI often does not really sparkle with genius. In my league, there's a player with blue or green ratings at all outfield positions that several AI teams have insisted on playing at third base - for years! He is terrible at third base. He spent two seasons with my Raccoons, where I used him as an outfielder - fine defense, something everybody can enjoy. Once he left for elsewhere, he was deployed at third base again. I also see so many shortstops with orange ratings for that position that make 20+ errors a season. You can't have everything, but middle infield should be the area where you want as much defense as possible. __________________ Portland Raccoons, 96 years of excell-.... of baseball: Furballs here! 1983 * 1989 * 1991 * 1992 * 1993 * 1995 * 1996 * 2010 * 2017 * 2018 * 2019 * 2026 * 2028 * 2035 * 2037 * 2044 * 2045 * 2046 * 2047 * 2048 * 2051 * 2054 * 2055 * 2061 * 2071 1 OSANAI : 2 POWELL : 7 NOMURA \| RAMOS : 8 REECE : 10 BROWN : 15 HALL : 27 FERNANDEZ : 28 CASAS : 31 CARMONA : 32 WEST : 39 TONER : 46 SAITO Resident Mets Cynic - The Mets from 1962 onwards, here.

12-16-2013, 01:14 PM	#4
Leo_The_Lip All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 1,813	Last night I had a bizarre happening. I'd brought up a great defensive CF prospect in September. A lefty batter, he started a game against a RH pitcher. In the top of the ninth, up 12-1 with the bases loaded, the other team brought in a LOOGY to face him. So the AI sends up a right-handed pinch hitter who is 3 out of 20 in CF and leaves him in the game for the bottom of the ninth. So crapola defensive AI. Pinch-hit AI? Grand Salami, 16-1 victory. You can't win even when you win. __________________ "My name will live forever" - Anonymous

12-16-2013, 01:34 PM	#5
RchW Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Toronto ON by way of Glasgow UK Posts: 15,629	More bad subs. This is worse because Sykes ( a true 2B) had never played SS before this season. The AI obviously thinks that Bransington must not be entitled to play SS when another warm body is present. I know the AI thinks Bransington should be the 2B. If so we need some sort of check box (not force start) that tells the AI this guy is the SS like it or not. I do find it funny that in both examples the PH hit a HR. Edit; oops not right, the one below was a double. Attached Images __________________ Cheers RichW If you’re looking for a good cause to donate money to please consider a Donation to Parkinson’s Canada. It may help me have a better future and if not me, someone else. Thanks. “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.” Frank Wilhoit Last edited by RchW; 12-16-2013 at 02:10 PM.

12-16-2013, 06:48 PM	#7
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	The in-game AI definitely sucks. And it sucks at roster management. Sorry, I still love the game but thought a little honesty might be more productive at this point. So... I'd agree that we need to hold off on more bells and whistles. How about we get the basics right first. We don't need no stinking improvements anywhere else. We don't need no stinking new features (selling points). Let's save the gimmicks for 16. The best selling point, to me, would be to improve the in-game AI and roster management. That, in and of itself, should be the new selling point!! Let's get under the hood and replace that damn squeaky fan-belt before we go out and buy a bunch of useless shiny 20" rims. $0.02 __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

12-15-2013, 03:33 PM	#2
Gil Thorp Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milford Posts: 349	This type of thing happens so regularly that the real challenge is to find examples where the AI makes the right moves. This, and the fact that the AI loads its bench with terrible fielders instead of guys that are good fielders at multiple positions drives me nuts and really needs to be one of the top priorities to be improved before we start to consider all the nut job ideas that show up in the suggestion thread.

12-16-2013, 06:28 PM	#6
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	It's really important that they work on defensive lineups for the 8/9 innings in the next OOTP. Otherwise you end up with poor decisions like this. Honestly the best solution would be to have an additional "lineup" in one of the menus where you can choose your final defensive alignments. Something simple like that could be huge for online teams, and FINALLY allow us to take advantage of players with multiple position eligibility. Think of real life Zobrist - it'd be nice to be able to shift players around from 2B to say RF and have the defensive replacement show up at 2B instead of being forced to either replace the current RF or current 2B.