Spring Training/40 Man Roster

[thesportsfan]

Having an issue with Spring Training in our fictional online league. The game promotes all of your 40 man roster players to the active roster for spring training. I was worried that when I went to send the guys who were in AAA back to AAA some of them might give me a problem - if they have no option years left. Lo and behold that is the case - as I tried to do this last night (with 2 games left in ST).

Is there a setting to stop the game from doing this in the preseason?
Or will those players let me 'demote them' once ST ends?

Mike

Owner - Roswell Visitors From Other Planets

[hefalumps]

Nope the game is doing what it's supposed to. Those guys you can't send back down are out of options, and they were out of options prior to their recall on day one of Spring Training. I think OOTP resets option years on the first day of preseason. So prior to preseason, those players were probably listed as "Last option year", but once preseason hit, they should have been listed as "Out of options".

If OOTP let you keep those players in the minors on "optional assignment" even when they were out of options, it would be a loophole. I think older versions of OOTP let you get away with this, and that's why Markus made it so the game recalls all your 40-man guys on day 1 of Spring Training.

In real life, there is no 25-man active roster during the offseason. There's only the 40-man roster. I think Markus arbitrarily chose ST as the date to automatically move all your 40-man guys to the active roster, but he just as easily could have done it on the first day of preseason or offseason.

Your only recourse is to expose those players to waivers.

Hope that explanation helped!

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

In real life, there is no 25-man active roster during the offseason. There's only the 40-man roster. I think Markus arbitrarily chose ST as the date to automatically move all your 40-man guys to the active roster, but he just as easily could have done it on the first day of preseason or offseason.

Your only recourse is to expose those players to waivers.

Hope that explanation helped!

and this allows some manipulation compare to real life, as you can put guys of 60day dl in offseason increasing your roster spots to protect on Rule 5 draft


btw. i never notice all players are up at start of ST. i have kept guys on my AAA roster (AAA starts during ST in my league, so to get playing time for non 40man prospect)- but i never tried to have a 40man guy without option play in AAA during that time. i'll try next ST, see what happens.
they should however have to be exposed at some point, but i'm curious now.

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by le receveur

btw. i never notice all players are up at start of ST. i have kept guys on my AAA roster (AAA starts during ST in my league, so to get playing time for non 40man prospect)- but i never tried to have a 40man guy without option play in AAA during that time. i'll try next ST, see what happens.
they should however have to be exposed at some point, but i'm curious now.

Yep if they're on your 40-man, they should automatically get recalled. Obviously if they're just in the minors on a minor league contract, they'll stay put.

There was actually a bug a few versions ago where OOTP was charging 40-man players their option years just before they were being put on the active roster at start of ST. It was causing a ton of confusion about how options were supposed to be working. But that's fixed now - the player only gets charged an option if you have to send them down later.

[hefalumps]

Here's what I discovered during my in-depth research of how OOTP handles minor league options.

In OOTP, a player uses an option year under the following circumstances:

a) He is on the 40-man roster
b) He is NOT on the 25-man roster (i.e. in the minors)
c) It is Spring Training or the Regular Season
d) At least one OOTP day passes with the player meeting these criteria

Letter d) is actually important. I had a case where I optioned someone to the minors, played out the day's game, and someone got hurt, so I DL'ed the injured player and recalled the player I had optioned earlier in the day. That player didn't use up an option year, because he didn't spend at least one day in the minors.

Once an option year is used on a player in OOTP, he can be moved back and forth as many times as you like for the rest of that season. Option years run from preseason to preseason.

Here's an example:

- A player with "3 option years" who is optioned in 1954 will then show as "2 option years" with "Option used this season" set to YES
- On preseason 1955, that player will still show as "2 option years" with "Option used this season" set to No. If he gets optioned again in 1955, his status will change to "1 option year" with "Option used this season" set to YES
- On preseason 1956, that player will still show as "1 option year" with "Option used this season" set to No. If he gets optioned again in 1956, his status will change to "Last option year" with "Option used this season" set to YES
- On preseason 1957, that player will show as "Out of Options"

Hope this is helpful!

[le receveur]

just to to make sure i understand. if someone on my 40-day roster, is sent to AAA during spring training doesn't play in AAA, and is recalled before the start of the season, OOTP will still charge him on Option? (i make progressive cuts to have the RL experience)


(if i understood wrong, and they are not, would they lose an option if they played a game in AAA?)

[hefalumps]

Originally Posted by le receveur

just to to make sure i understand. if someone on my 40-day roster, is sent to AAA during spring training doesn't play in AAA, and is recalled before the start of the season, OOTP will still charge him on Option? (i make progressive cuts to have the RL experience)


(if i understood wrong, and they are not, would they lose an option if they played a game in AAA?)

Yep it doesn't matter if he plays or not. If he's on your 40-man, and he's sent to AAA during spring training, and you hit the "Finish Today" button so that he spends at least one OOTP day on the AAA roster, he will be charged an option.

For this reason, I usually keep track of the players I'm going to cut in a text file on my PC, but I don't actually cut them until a few days before opening day (or minor league opening day if it's earlier). That way if there's an injury that makes room for that guy I was originally going to cut, I didn't waste an option on him in spring training. I'll probably still have to use an option on him when the injured player returns later in the season, but it saves the option for the time being.

[le receveur]

thanks. i guess i was using it wrongly. I was removing guys early to make sure the real ST competition guys had maximum playing time. i'll start using the sit guy for x-days feature for the guys likely destined for AAA

[hefalumps]

Yeah I'll write down a guy as a "cut" and stop playing him so I can evaluate others, but if I have two or three guys get hurt in the last week of ST, that "cut" may end up making my opening day roster. So while I'll stop playing the guy, I won't actually cut him until the end of ST.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by le receveur

and this allows some manipulation compare to real life, as you can put guys of 60day dl in offseason increasing your roster spots to protect on Rule 5 draft

Just keep in mind that the AI can select a player off of your 60 day DL in the rule 5 draft as he is no longer protected.

I lost a #4 type starting pitcher in OOPT 12 this way. Guy never pitched in the bigs for me, not even a Sept. call up. Had a long injury so I put him on 60 day DL which he was still on at the time of the rule 5 draft. He would have had a shot at making the club during the next year and was my best AAA SP. His 60 days were up but he was still hadn't recovered so I left him on 60 day figuring nobody would take him. I was wrong. He has gone on to a decent #3-4 type starting pitcher career for teams other than mine. Lesson learned.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by hefalumps

Yep it doesn't matter if he plays or not. If he's on your 40-man, and he's sent to AAA during spring training, and you hit the "Finish Today" button so that he spends at least one OOTP day on the AAA roster, he will be charged an option.

He shouldn't be though, at least, not according to the real life rules. Options are only charged after the player has spent twenty days on option during the regular season. Time spent on option to the minors during spring training does not count.

It's worth noting too that OOTP does not follow the rule which requires a player optioned to the minors to spend at least ten days in the minors before being recalled (injury replacements excepted).

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by Sweed

Just keep in mind that the AI can select a player off of your 60 day DL in the rule 5 draft as he is no longer protected.

I lost a #4 type starting pitcher in OOPT 12 this way. Guy never pitched in the bigs for me, not even a Sept. call up. Had a long injury so I put him on 60 day DL which he was still on at the time of the rule 5 draft. He would have had a shot at making the club during the next year and was my best AAA SP. His 60 days were up but he was still hadn't recovered so I left him on 60 day figuring nobody would take him. I was wrong. He has gone on to a decent #3-4 type starting pitcher career for teams other than mine. Lesson learned.

seriously? so can i reinstate him on my roster if he still during the 60-day?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by le receveur

seriously? so can i reinstate him on my roster if he still during the 60-day?

This is another little issue in OOTP. In real life, the 60-day DL stops operating on the fifth day following the last game of the World Series. On that date all players must be reinstated from the DL to the 40-man roster.

If he is still injured when spring training begins, he can be placed once again on the 60-day DL (which starts up early in spring training).

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

and this allows some manipulation compare to real life, as you can put guys of 60day dl in offseason increasing your roster spots to protect on Rule 5 draft


btw. i never notice all players are up at start of ST. i have kept guys on my AAA roster (AAA starts during ST in my league, so to get playing time for non 40man prospect)- but i never tried to have a 40man guy without option play in AAA during that time. i'll try next ST, see what happens.
they should however have to be exposed at some point, but i'm curious now.

Two things in real life:

There is no 60-day DL in the offseason.
You can't put a player on the 60-day DL unless your 40-man roster is full.

As Sweed says in OOTP players on the 60-day DL can be claimed in the Rule 5 draft since they are not on the 40-man roster.

To me the roster rules in OOTP are one of the biggest remaining exploits for human players. If we had to follow real life rules the ability to hoard players in AAA would increase the difficulty level significantly.

I try to play in such a way that I don't use the exploits, but there are too many. For example IRL a player can only be outrighted once in his career without consent. That alone would change the difficulty in OOTP

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by le receveur

seriously? so can i reinstate him on my roster if he still during the 60-day?

My best recollection is my guy was on the list and still injured. I am not sure anymore (it was two versions ago) if his 60 days were up or not. Not sure if the game would have allowed me to move him back to the 40 man even if he was still hurt. I do know I was surprised that he was selected, and the number one pick in the first round to boot.

I believe what you want to do is not put a guy on the 60 day if you know it will go into the rule 5 draft as this will expose the player to being picked. Instead just put him on the 15 day and keep him protected.

As RchW IRL there is no 60 day in off-season so not an issue. In OOTP though, due to limitations in the coding, it can be an issue.

[le receveur]

Originally Posted by Sweed

My best recollection is my guy was on the list and still injured. I am not sure anymore (it was two versions ago) if his 60 days were up or not. Not sure if the game would have allowed me to move him back to the 40 man even if he was still hurt. I do know I was surprised that he was selected, and the number one pick in the first round to boot.

I believe what you want to do is not put a guy on the 60 day if you know it will go into the rule 5 draft as this will expose the player to being picked. Instead just put him on the 15 day and keep him protected.

As RchW IRL there is no 60 day in off-season so not an issue. In OOTP though, due to limitations in the coding, it can be an issue.

i'll test next time. problem, is i'm pretty sure you need to put him on 60-day dl to open a spot for playoff roster (i did once because i had only 2 catchers on my 40-man roster, and one got injured in late september)

[RchW]

Originally Posted by le receveur

i'll test next time. problem, is i'm pretty sure you need to put him on 60-day dl to open a spot for playoff roster (i did once because i had only 2 catchers on my 40-man roster, and one got injured in late september)

Nope. Just keep him on the expanded September roster, then once the playoffs come put him on the 15-day DL and you will instantly get the indication on the playoff roster screen that you can add a player. Putting him on the 60-day DL removes him from the 40-man roster which means OOTP doesn't count him at all for any roster spot.

Going OT but you should put any player on the 60-day DL from earlier in the season back on the active (40-man) roster during September so you can do the above.