The future of football?

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Tib

And I don't see a lot of head to head contact in rugby. Tackling, yes. Scrums, yes, but not the kind of helmet to helmet impact common in football.

That's the whole point!

There's no head to head contact because there are no helmets.

It forces rugby players to actually tackle correctly, as football players used to be taught to years ago.

Get in from of the guy to be tackled, get low, keep a straight back, wrap up. That's the "proper" way to tackle but NFL players never do that anymore. Too easy just to launch themselves through the air like a guided missile, using the helmet as a weapon

[Antonin]

Originally Posted by David Watts

The other day I heard Chris Collinsworth on a talk show and they asked him about the concussion/head injury issue. Collinsworth said he could see this leading to the end of the sport at the high school level. He said that the NFL can afford the lawsuits and to a certain extent so can colleges, but let a high school get hit with a lawsuit and you will see school boards shutting down the sport completely...

Because of recent rules changes, football looks very different today than when I was growing up in the 60s. Sometimes NFL games look like arcade video games--long pass after long pass and little else. One former defensive back for the Cleveland Browns said he hates to watch football these days because he thinks the new rules don't let players play.

Because of lawsuits I can see high school football dying out over the next 10-15 years. I think college football and the NFL will follow.

Just the other day a sports writer in Cleveland wrote a column in which he questioned his love of the game. Essentially he asked: "Do I have the right to derive enjoyment from a violent sport that causes so much long-term damage to its participants?"

The same question could be asked about boxing.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Antonin

Because of recent rules changes, football looks very different today than when I was growing up in the 60s. Sometimes NFL games look like arcade video games--long pass after long pass and little else. One former defensive back for the Cleveland Browns said he hates to watch football these days because he thinks the new rules don't let players play.

Because of lawsuits I can see high school football dying out over the next 10-15 years. I think college football and the NFL will follow.

Just the other day a sports writer in Cleveland wrote a column in which he questioned his love of the game. Essentially he asked: "Do I have the right to derive enjoyment from a violent sport that causes so much long-term damage to its participants?"

The same question could be asked about boxing.

I feel the same way about hockey. It bears no resemblance to the game I played and watched until 2004. I stopped watching after the lockout in 2004-05. I do watch a few games each season but find the game like pinball played with inflated armored cars. I can't stand the weenie mentality where a clean hit calls for retaliation but not by the player hit. Tough players take a hit and carry on. Now the "offended" team sends out a thug to go after someone on the other team so they send out their thug for a staged fight. I'm not against fighting in the course of a physical contest but staged fights drag hockey to the level of WWE.

Just like football, hockey has way too many guys who just launch themselves recklessly into collisions without concern. To me that is directly attributable to video games.

This probably sounds like sour grapes. Just like the old farts I swore I'd never be like. Hockey just doesn't grab me the way it used to.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I think there is a simple solution: Get rid of helmets and shoulder pads.

Now this may seem counterproductive, but I truly believe that a man with no helmet is going to take better care of his noggin and the helmets and shoulder pads only dish out more damage than they protect against.

This is true, but you can't do this at the pro level.

I do agree with the OP however. I think an end to high school football is soon to come. They won't go to flag (no one will watch) or helmetless. Because if you think they'll be afraid of lawsuits with head gear, imagine the lawsuit if someone gets seriously injured without any at all.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Antonin

Because of recent rules changes, football looks very different today than when I was growing up in the 60s. Sometimes NFL games look like arcade video games--long pass after long pass and little else. One former defensive back for the Cleveland Browns said he hates to watch football these days because he thinks the new rules don't let players play.

The biggest rule problem I have with the NFL is throwing a flag for hitting a defenseless WR. The rule wouldn't be so bad if it didn't also include a WR with the ball!

How many times have we already seen a WR catch the ball, get hit, and a flag is thrown? Defenders will never adjust to this rule because they do not have another option. So in this case, the flags don't protect anyone and just add 15 yards.

Originally Posted by Antonin

Because of lawsuits I can see high school football dying out over the next 10-15 years. I think college football and the NFL will follow.

I do not believe the NFL will ever follow. There is too much money in the sport. At some point they will make players sign waivers before they step out on to the field. Or, they'll promise some type of lifetime care regarding retired players. Or both. But I don't see the NFL going away. Not while they are all adults making the decisions.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

That's the whole point!

There's no head to head contact because there are no helmets.

It forces rugby players to actually tackle correctly, as football players used to be taught to years ago.

Get in from of the guy to be tackled, get low, keep a straight back, wrap up. That's the "proper" way to tackle but NFL players never do that anymore. Too easy just to launch themselves through the air like a guided missile, using the helmet as a weapon

Football without helmets and pads would eventually have to evolve its rules to be something closer to rugby (to understand why, just read about the various rule changes and responses to injury concerns in the early 20th century history of football). The good news is that this sport already exists. So everyone should just start watching rugby, IMO.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

The biggest rule problem I have with the NFL is throwing a flag for hitting a defenseless WR. The rule wouldn't be so bad if it didn't also include a WR with the ball!

How many times have we already seen a WR catch the ball, get hit, and a flag is thrown? Defenders will never adjust to this rule because they do not have another option. So in this case, the flags don't protect anyone and just add 15 yards.

I agree with this and believe it applies to every one of these so called safety rules. They do nothing to protect, only punish. Sometimes it is appropriate to punish (on just about every personal foul that was on the books 30 years ago), but most of the newer rules are against things that usually just can't be helped.

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I do not believe the NFL will ever follow. There is too much money in the sport. At some point they will make players sign waivers before they step out on to the field. Or, they'll promise some type of lifetime care regarding retired players. Or both. But I don't see the NFL going away. Not while they are all adults making the decisions.

If high schools close up shop, where will they get players? Though, I don't see high schools in Texas shutting down football anytime soon.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by RchW

I feel the same way about hockey. It bears no resemblance to the game I played and watched until 2004. I stopped watching after the lockout in 2004-05. I do watch a few games each season but find the game like pinball played with inflated armored cars. I can't stand the weenie mentality where a clean hit calls for retaliation but not by the player hit. Tough players take a hit and carry on. Now the "offended" team sends out a thug to go after someone on the other team so they send out their thug for a staged fight. I'm not against fighting in the course of a physical contest but staged fights drag hockey to the level of WWE.

I got tired of hockey because of all the cheap shots that players seem to like taking against each other; deliberate elbows to the head of the other player being the most notable. (Though of course the players deny the head hit was deliberate.) This is why I now call the league the NCSHL—the National Cheap Shot Hockey League.

Originally Posted by Ragnar

I do not believe the NFL will ever follow. There is too much money in the sport. At some point they will make players sign waivers before they step out on to the field. Or, they'll promise some type of lifetime care regarding retired players. Or both. But I don't see the NFL going away. Not while they are all adults making the decisions.

If the NFLPA had anywhere near the resolve, strength, and unity of the MLBPA, there would more examination of the health issues and some sort of steps taken to ameliorate them (as best can be done given the realities of the technology and circumstances). Unless the players take an active and determined interest in protecting their own health, they'll be the ones paying the price.

There does not seem to be any sort of Marvin Miller on the horizon to galvanize professional football players into standing up for themselves...

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I got tired of hockey because of all the cheap shots that players seem to like taking against each other; deliberate elbows to the head of the other player being the most notable. (Though of course the players deny the head hit was deliberate.) This is why I now call the league the NCSHL—the National Cheap Shot Hockey League.


If the NFLPA had anywhere near the resolve, strength, and unity of the MLBPA, there would more examination of the health issues and some sort of steps taken to ameliorate them (as best can be done given the realities of the technology and circumstances). Unless the players take an active and determined interest in protecting their own health, they'll be the ones paying the price.

There does not seem to be any sort of Marvin Miller on the horizon to galvanize professional football players into standing up for themselves...

Because it's bunk! Let me explain something to you. If I am good enough to play in the NFL for 500k a year to a multi million dollar contract, just show me where to sign. These are adults that weigh the risks vs the reward, and in many cases it is a no brainer. If some players want to make an issue and step aside, they would be replaced quicker than Larry King's wife!

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Questdog

If high schools close up shop, where will they get players? Though, I don't see high schools in Texas shutting down football anytime soon.

Speaking of Texas football.

Bullying football team: Texas coach faces 'bullying' charge after 91-0 win - Long Island Top News | Examiner.com

Texas high school football coach Tim Buchanan is dealing with a bullying complaint after at least one set of parents filed a formal charge with the school, accusing the coach of more than just piling on the points

That's right, a parent put in a bullying complaint because one team ran up the score. I will refrain from further comment.

[Antonin]

Here in Cleveland the topic of concussions and their long-term effects has been prominently in the news for several years. Former Browns QB Bernie Kosar, one of our heroes from the 1980s, has been very open about his struggles with memory loss and other neurological issues. Kosar is a color analyst for Browns TV broadcasts and is frequently interviewed on the radio, and his problems have become impossible to ignore. He slurs his words so much he sounds like a 'punch drunk' boxer. He rambles a lot. Often, what he is talking about when he reaches the end of a sentence has no relation to what he was talking about at the beginning, and then the play-by-play guy jumps in to bring some sense to the discussion.

It's easy to say that the young men who get paid a lot of money to play football know what they are getting into and do not need to be protected from themselves. Perhaps. But really, the perspective of a man in his 20s is radically different from the one he will have later in life. A man in his late 50s, with a better understanding of consequences, is certain to regret some behaviors he had while in his 20s. He would not make the same choices he did when he was young, and doubtless he wishes he could go back and do some things differently.

A friend of mine who had a career in the military says there's a reason armies prefer young soldiers: "You can tell an 18 year old, 'Son, I want you to charge up that hill and take that machine gun!' And the 18 year old will say, 'Yes sir!' But say the same thing to a 40 year old, and he's going to say, 'Hmmm. Wait a minute. That's not such a good idea.'" In other words, young men will take foolish risks that an older man would never consider.

I'm not quite ready to say society needs to bring football to an end to protect players from themselves. But my enjoyment of the game has changed from the 60s and 70s. I used to love the bruising plays and big hits. Guys like Jim Brown, Dick Butkus, Alan Page and Larry Csonka were my heroes. Now, I think more about what players will experience in later life, and I feel more lukewarm about the game itself. If it went away, I wouldn't miss it. Sometimes I think football is a form of entertainment that has run its course. I question whether it is right for me to enjoy such a game [and a sport like boxing]. I don't have any children, but if I did I would not let them play football.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Antonin

It's easy to say that the young men who get paid a lot of money to play football know what they are getting into and do not need to be protected from themselves. Perhaps. But really, the perspective of a man in his 20s is radically different from the one he will have later in life. A man in his late 50s, with a better understanding of consequences, is certain to regret some behaviors he had while in his 20s. He would not make the same choices he did when he was young, and doubtless he wishes he could go back and do some things differently.

Like not take the 30 million dollar contract and live a completely different life? I am sure there are a lot of people that wish they would have done things differently in their 20's. But at that age you want that excitement, you want that money. Let them make their own choices knowing the risks. Hell, i'm in my mid 40's and if the crappy Eagles wanted to pay me just 1 million dollars to play QB and get pounded every week, i'd do it! And I am willing to guarantee the exact same amount of TD passes they put up the last two weeks.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Because it's bunk! Let me explain something to you. If I am good enough to play in the NFL for 500k a year to a multi million dollar contract, just show me where to sign. These are adults that weigh the risks vs the reward, and in many cases it is a no brainer. If some players want to make an issue and step aside, they would be replaced quicker than Larry King's wife!

Baseball owners once thought that too. A strong, unified, and determined players union quickly showed that without major league-quality players the owners have no show to sell (and from which to make a profit).

It would not be any different in football. If the players aren't prepared to stand up for the issue of health and safety, then nothing will change.

[Tib]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

That's the whole point!

There's no head to head contact because there are no helmets.

It forces rugby players to actually tackle correctly, as football players used to be taught to years ago.

Get in from of the guy to be tackled, get low, keep a straight back, wrap up. That's the "proper" way to tackle but NFL players never do that anymore. Too easy just to launch themselves through the air like a guided missile, using the helmet as a weapon

I agree that there is more hitting and less tackling than in years past. Perhaps that's what you mean about using helmets as weapons. Certainly the NFL rulesmiths agree with you. My point is that eliminating protective equipment to reduce injuries is anathema. No one in today's NFL is going to buy this idea.

What I'm saying is: this is the way the sport has evolved -- hit harder and we'll give you better equipment and stricter rules -- but the violence pays the bills.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Baseball owners once thought that too. A strong, unified, and determined players union quickly showed that without major league-quality players the owners have no show to sell (and from which to make a profit).

It would not be any different in football. If the players aren't prepared to stand up for the issue of health and safety, then nothing will change.

It all depends on what you are suggesting. What do you expect the players to do? You say for health and safety, what exactly does that entail?

[mirrf]

Originally Posted by Antonin

Kosar is a color analyst for Browns TV broadcasts ... He rambles a lot. Often, what he is talking about when he reaches the end of a sentence has no relation to what he was talking about at the beginning, and then the play-by-play guy jumps in to bring some sense to the discussion.

I guess that explains Tim McCarver as well.







Sorry, too hard to resist.