If you were in charge, what would you do?

[kotu247]

Gentlemen,

While browsing this forum occassionally, I have never had a need to register since all of my questions have been expeditiously answered with a quick search, but obviously the time has come for me to do so.

I am the "new" commissioner of the EBM (Elite Baseball Managers), [30 years old since it apparently matters to Cooleyvol] and since the history that has been laid out here is "foggy" at best, let me lend some insight:

My intention in starting the EBM was to pick up where the BMN (Baseball Managers Network) left off. The BMN was a league that was comprised of at LEAST 20 of the (in my opinion) best, most active, most knowledgeable OOTP players on the internet. Unfortunately it also contained one of the worst commissioners to ever run a league. After months of being MIA the commissioner came back, finding us dedicated BMN owners waiting patiently for him. He promptly started the 2005 playoffs, making it to the end of the wild card series before disappearing again for several days. The assistant commissioner, and then owner of the Toronto Blue Jays, stated that if he wasn't given passwords to do his assistant commissioner job, that he was going to have to quit the league. The commissioner then reappeared to start the League Championship series. Two games in, he disappeared again, and true to his word, the assistant commissioner threw in the towel and left. The commish showed back up after a couple of days, ran the next two games and THEN replaced the Jay's owner with a new one. The commissioner ran the rest of the playoffs and hasn't been heard from since.

Now that you have some clearer history, here are my thoughts on the subject.

1) As commissioner of the EBM I deeply feel that it is my responsiblity to take personal feelings about an owner out of the equation. I REFUSE to show any bias towards an owner because I like or dislike his personality. Has the original Blue Jays owner been an a$$ at times? Probably so. I could care less about that. Any point made here about his being a cancer or crybaby or whiner are (in my opinion) absolutly irrelevant when it comes to making a decision about ownership. I know that I have the ability to handle that owner in this league, and if I thought for one second that he would be bad for the league, he would not be invited back.

2) The "new" Jays owner was not involved in the league long enough for anybody (including myself) to even know who he was. I have been with the league since about 3 weeks after inception and checked the message boards daily. To my knowledge he NEVER MADE ONE POST about his team or any other team for that matter. His owner information was never posted to the owners page and since he was instated LATE during the ALCS he had ZERO opportunity to impact the management of that team.

3) The old Jays owner undoubtedly put his heart and soul (as much as you can over a game) into forming that team and he in no way wanted to abandon it, he honestly felt like he had no choice in the matter. I could think he was the biggest a$$hole on the face of the earth, but it still wouldn't make me question his passion about being an incredible owner in the BMN.

4) The precident that was mentioned earlier involving the Padres owner was a completlely different situation. The owner who left the Padres left early in the season and was gone for over half of that simulated season. The new Padres owner had put his "identity stamp" on that team and had made many changes to try to make it a competitive franchise. In that circumstance I wholeheartedly agreed that the original Padres owner should have been made to pick an open team or wait for one to come available. And in most incidences I would think that would be the case. All rules must have an exception, and I think that this is the one.

5) I am determined to run my league as a democracy and not a dictatorship. I understand completly that you can't make everyone happy all of the time, but I also plan on listening to the opinions of my owners. I offered up a vote on reinstatement IF (I REPEAT IF) we were able to get ahold of the "new" Blue Jays owner to see if he was interested at all and IF (I REPEAT IF) the "old" Jays owner was even interested in returning to his old team. As of this second, the "new" owner has been unreachable and the "old" owner has not expressed a desire to return.

6) I would hate to see Shaun (OCBLCommish) leave this league because of a decision to reinstate the old Jays owner. On a personal level Shaun is probably my favorite owner in this league since he and I took on the challenge of running expansion franchises last season and talked frequently during that time. Having said that, I would hope that he would be able to respect the decision of a league wide vote on the subject and the early take from the people in the league is to let the "old" Jays owner have his team back. This is not because we are trying to "railroad" the new owner, it is because EVERYONE in this league was JUST AS FRUSTRATED as the "old" Jays owner, he was just the only one fed up enough to leave. And once again.....if the "new" owner had been there for more than a couple of PLAYOFF sims, I would have an entirely different outlook on the subject. While we may not agree with some of the things he said on the way out, we ALL agree that we were just as upset in seeing one of the best leagues on the net dying a slow painful death.

If you made it to the end of this post, I want to thank you for reading the entire thing, and I also ask that you try your best not to flame me for my opinions. I feel like I have the ability to admit when I am wrong and will gladly do so if someone can point out an overwhelming justification to changing my decision that I might be overlooking. As the commissioner of the EBM I wish that this issue would have been kept "in-house" since I don't think the court of public opinion is the appropriate place to judge a situation that is obviously intricate, delicate, and understandable only by someone directly involved in the situation.

Ty Smith - Commish of the EBM.

[vtbub]

Well, with all due respect, the team became available and you filled it. We as owners and commissioners are responsible for our actions. If he quit, he quit. You filled the spot, that team wasn't open.

It's a moot point if the new displaced owner has no beef. If he does, then you have a problem.

Good Luck.

[Karen Lutz]

The answer is fairly evident.....don't make promises.

[kotu247]

vtbub.....i understand it was a long post and forgive me if I wasn't clear, but I didn't fill it. The old, bad, evil, missing in action commmish filled it.

And IF the displaced owner has a beef then I will address the situation then. Right now I have yet to hear from him.

[vtbub]

Hope it works out for you.

[OCBLcommish]

In defense of Tim (the former commish of the BMN)...I would not characterize him as "the old, bad, evil" commish like Ty did. Nor would I say he was one of the "worst commissioners to ever run a league".
Tim, IMO, did an excellent job running the league. He had a fantastic webpage, recruited some of the greatest OOTP guys there are who are as active as any owners in any league out there, and poured a whooooooole lot of time into the league.
He went AWOL a few times in the last say 5-6 months, but prior to that he had a couple solid years without missing a sim unless there was a solid reason.
The way he handled the league as far as making back up plans for his absence over an extended time or his communication as far as letting us know what was going on while he was AWOL was piss poor. Some of seriously worried he may have been hospitalized or worse because it was so out of character when he 1st went AWOL.
Anyways, just wanted to step up to the plate and let it be known that Tim wasnt this piss poor commish who ran the leaugue horribly....if that was the case, the owners wouldntve stuck with the league in his absence, nor would so many of the owners want the league to continue. Its a great league, always has been and Im sure it will be for some time.

[TC Dale]

Quote: "And once again.....if the "new" owner had been there for more than a couple of PLAYOFF sims, I would have an entirely different outlook on the subject."



Let's put it this way. To belittle the new Jays owner as insignificant and unworthy, as stated above, you show your tendencies as an immature Commissioner.

If I was the Blue Jays owner, and you said that to me, I would kick your butt all over the league boards, and then on the public boards here.

I am not sorry I am taking a hard line here.

You show your "immaturity" like cooley correctly stated earlier in this thread by allowing yourself to show your lack of common sense and duty to all your owners by treating one's short tenure without the same care that you give an original owner.

If you do it to him, what will stop you the next time to a different owner? What happens if everyone disagrees with you on some subject you deem neccessary to your running the league?


This is unbelievable that people have not risen up and told you what utter banality this action is.


I wish you well, but I don't see solid owners that may be looking for a new league darkening your door with this kind of elitist attitude.


I hope you rethink your thought processes on new owners vs old owners.


For your league , it needs a different outlook indeed.

[kotu247]

TC Dale,

I appreciate your "holier than thou attitude", but this is the exact reason why I wish this issue would have stayed "in house". You pulled out one quote from a 12 paragraph statement and completely ignored every other valid statement made.

NO ONE BELITTLED the "new" Jays owner. I read my statement twice over again and couldn't find any place where I labled him as insignificant or unworthy. I will concede that I am showing my tendencies as an immature Commissioner as soon as you concede that your ability to construe my comments into something completly different then what they are makes you look like a complete jackass.

I also clearly stated in my earlier post (that you apparently weren't intelligent enough to read the entire way through) that the majority of the owners in this league AGREE WITH MY ORIGINAL DECISION. The only owner so far that has made a public disagreement is Shaun who posted this thread. If 99% of the owners agree with my decision then how is that "showing a lack of common sense and duty to all of my owners". And your idiotic rhetorical questions on would I do it to another owner further prove the point that you did not read my statement fully as it CLEARLY POINTS out that the only other time a owner tried to come back I found it completely fitting that he NOT BE ALLOWED to take over his old team.

You are speaking about a subject that you know nothing about. If you had been a member of the league and you had any clue of the many different things that went on during the rise and fall of the league, you might very possibly have the viewpoint of the MAJORITY of the other owners in the league.

Furthermore, my "elitist attitude" must have been gleamingly apparent in my entire paragraph about "running my league as a democracy and not a dictatorship" or did you miss that one too? I had no desire to start a flame war or even a heated debate, but any response like this shows that perhaps before clicking that reply button you should open your eyes, open your mind, digest the information, and keep your pothole shut unless you can absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt speak inteligently on the subject which you obviously can't because you were not ever a member of the original league.

Let me also take this opportunity to say publicly that I agree with Shaun completly when he says that Tim did do an excellent job............as in DID......in the past tense. He was a great commish for a long time. He only recently turned into the "worst commissioner to ever run a league". I understand that things happen that make OOTP leagues take a backseat to real life, but there would have been no hard feelings if he would have just stated so instead of dissapearing, reappearing, disappering, reappearing, and then dissapearing all over again. I hope that all is well in his life and certainly hold nothing personally against him.

[asamford]

so is this just like the designated week for crazy OOTP bull**** or what?

[vtbub]

What the hell does this have to do with the new owner getting shafted, which by the way you have done here. Whether you feel you were right or wrong, you have damaged your league.

Hint number two, don't mess with the community managers, they are really nice people.

[The Professor]

What the hell does this have to do with the new owner getting shafted, which by the way you have done here. Whether you feel you were right or wrong, you have damaged your league.

Hint number two, don't mess with the community managers, they are really nice people.

In defense of this new commissioner, he has stated that the Blue Jays owner has not been in touch, been unresponsive, etc. He also stated that the old Blue Jays owner hadn't expressed interest one way or the other yet, IIRC...

This is all moot...so maybe we can call off the OOTP League Police, eh? Advice is one thing, upbraiding the fellow isn't necessary though....especially if you are going to take only part of his statement to the bank.

I agree that this seems like a no-brainer, no matter what the excuses are (as Cooley, TC and almost everyone else has stated...including myself)...but if the current Blue Jays owner isn't even in touch and the old owner has yet to express an interest in returning, it appears that the OOTP townsfolk have set the castle on fire and Frankenstein's monster is not even at home...

Much ado about nothing...

[The Last Word Period]

I like your style ... for an old guy you talk good!

[vtbub]

Fair enough, point taken.

[rise100]

I can hardly believe what I am reading. I am sure the community guy is plaenty nice, but he really does not know what he is talking about. Ty is right.

"I would gladly take another open team rather than replacing someone who had already been managing, no matter the length of time involved."

Again... the new Jays owner has not replied to any messages about joining the REPLACEMENT league... THIS IS NOT BMN>>> ITS EBM!!! It is now a completely different league, run by a different commisioner! Furthermore.. as Ty already pointed out... the ;so called "new" owner never completed an export, never was involved in a single sim, and otherwise may as well have not exsisted. Despite this, he has been invited into the league and has been asked for his input... with no response.

Secondly, EBM already has 15-20 of the best GM's on the net, coming from a league that failed because of a commish who didn't see it fit to tell his owners anything. The fact that Ty and the other core owners are willing to precede in rebuilding a league that most of us have been involved for over a year should excite those other serious owners looking for a new league. We were great owners in BMN, and will be participatory owners in the new league.

[TC Dale]

Originally posted by The Professor
In defense of this new commissioner, he has stated that the Blue Jays owner has not been in touch, been unresponsive, etc. He also stated that the old Blue Jays owner hadn't expressed interest one way or the other yet, IIRC...

This is all moot...so maybe we can call off the OOTP League Police, eh? Advice is one thing, upbraiding the fellow isn't necessary though....especially if you are going to take only part of his statement to the bank.

I agree that this seems like a no-brainer, no matter what the excuses are (as Cooley, TC and almost everyone else has stated...including myself)...but if the current Blue Jays owner isn't even in touch and the old owner has yet to express an interest in returning, it appears that the OOTP townsfolk have set the castle on fire and Frankenstein's monster is not even at home...

Much ado about nothing...

To Ty and the others I might have confused!

I will agree that the new Toronto owner if he hasn't replied to anything over a period of time deserves a penalty with DUE course and a registered email would be appropriate.


I believe I did over react to the defense of a new owner , but not to the point that I am unfairly accused.

And the comment I pulled out of the quote was legitimate and I felt needed to be addressed at the time.

The owners you have certainly look to be a great group of folks. It was nice to see them come and support you. That says a lot about your GM's and the league you run.


Please refrain from the low comments if you can, commish. I am all for calling someone to task for a perceived point of view, but not to the valleys you took it to. Restraint doesn't mean you can't make your point.


I admit that I was wrong in jumping on with spiked shoes, maybe you could admit you went a WEE bit overboard as well?

Hope that you guys will give us some miniupdates during the season so folks can find you ..... !

And for the record, I am a pretty nice guy.

[The Professor]

Surely that can't all be directed at my quote...??

I was just saying - in a rather flippant manner, to be sure - that we should all take a step back and not ream the commissioner for doing what he feels is most fair, especially considering the complete circumstances.

In any event, I can't imagine that is all directed at me... Especially since I'm more or less on the same side.

[TC Dale]

Nope it sure isn't Professor. It is a olive branch trying to close the wound. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

My apologies.

[kotu247]

I am happy to admit that I may have taken my second post a wee bit overboard. I was incredibly agitated at what I perceived was a opinion formed without taking all matters into account. I appologize for the personal blasts and assure you that I meant nothing by them other than to make it clear that I felt I was being unfairly crucified.

I also readily admit that from the outside looking in, this will always look like the wrong decision. From the inside looking out, the league as a whole seems to think it is a different story, and I realize that no amount of forum posts would be able to correctly portray the entire picture.

We do have a wonderful group of GM's, but not for coming to my defense. I ASSURE you that this same group of GM's will take me to task if they ever feel neccessary They are very knowledgeable and very passionate which is really the only reason that I decided to take on the task of trying to bring this thing back together. I couldn't think of a better group of guys to share a hobby with, and hopefully we will fill any opened spots with guys just as dedicated.

I again appologize for trying to whack you with a lead pipe after you jumped on with spiked shoes As a matter of fact, I so appreciate your gathered response, and believe you when you tell me you are a nice guy, that if you are ever in the Houston area you should give me a shout and I will buy you a beer or two Maybe we could talk some baseball, or politics, or religion....... on second thought, lets just stick to baseball

[spleen1015]

Here is Spleen's line on this.

When I was commishing the NABA, I had an owner disappear for a couple weeks. I sent him several e-mails asking him to let me know that he was still active. Finally, I sent him an e-mail asking him to get back to me by a certain date or I would replace him. I never heard from him, so I replaced him as onwer of the team. 2 sims after he was replaced, I got an e-mail from him letting me know he was having ISP trouble and was unable to connect to the internet for 3 weeks while the issue was worked out. I had an opening in the league and offered it to him. He wanted back in the league but only as the owner of his original team. I talked to the current owner, explained the situation to him, and asked him if he would take over the vacant team and let the old owner have his team back. He agreed. Everything was good.

Here is what I would do in this situation with this league.

You say you haven't heard from the 'new' Blue Jays' owner. Send him an e-mail, with a deadline, asking him if he wants to be in the league. Ask him if he is willing to take over one of the open teams and let the original Blue Jays' owner have his team back. If he still wants the Blue Jays, then let the old owner know that he can have one of the open teams. If he doesn't accept that then, so long pal.

I say put the decision in the hands of the 'new' Blue Jays owner because he is the one that loses out, so to speak, if the team is taken from him. The old owner, regardless of circumstance, quit. He doesn't deserve the choice. You could put the choice in the hands of all owners, but this could still hurt the new guy.

I just think punishing the new owner is a bad move.

Hell, you might get lucky and the new owner won't get back to you and you have nothing to worry about.

Okay, I think I am done.

[vtbub]

My apologies for being an ass.