Baserunning isn't right

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Not every hit is right at the outfielder.

I don't play out my games, so I can't say whether or not this is a problem. But assuming that slow runner should rarely advance two bases on a hit to left is a little naive. Every base hit is not the same, nor does OOTP differentiate between the nearly countless types of hits (bloops, line drives, balls in the gap, balls right at an outfielder, 50 hoppers through the hole, etc.). That's one of the reasons I don't play out games. I'd like to see more variety in how hits are described.

Plus, remember that it's not just the player's speed rating that determines if he advances two bases. He might have a low speed rating, but a high baserunning rating, which means he gets good jumps and reads balls well.

The PbP differentiates between ground ball base hits, line drive base hits, and non-line drive (or softer) base hits. The type of hit is factored into the outcome of the play (as far as I can tell). To the best of my ability, I've tried to ensure that the PbP description "fits" the category it belongs to (though, granted, some of the PbP expressions may still be ambiguous).

[HuachucaThunder]

I too do not see that much of an issue with the baserunning, other than the speed guys not always scoring from second base on a hit to right field. I just finished the 6th season of a fictional league and my team has two guys at the top of the order who have 19 speed and 17 and 20 baserunning and neither of them score 99% of the time on a hit to left field. My clean-up hitter has a rating of 3 for speed but his baserunning rating is 15, so he is mostly station to station, he does not score very often on a hit to left field although his baserunning rating is a bit above average.
As was said in a prior post, the fielding modifiers could come into play along with the fielder's position and arm ratings.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

If avoiding knee jerk reactions, using common-sense, and understanding my limitations as an observer makes me a fanboy, I cheerfully plead guilty as charged!

[estyles]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

I was ready to believe there might be an issue until I saw this post. This is blatantly false - I see guys stop at 3rd fairly often. Therefore you've convinced me that you're wrong and have no idea what you're talking about.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

The PbP differentiates between ground ball base hits, line drive base hits, and non-line drive (or softer) base hits. The type of hit is factored into the outcome of the play (as far as I can tell). To the best of my ability, I've tried to ensure that the PbP description "fits" the category it belongs to (though, granted, some of the PbP expressions may still be ambiguous).

And you do a fantastic job. However, I would tend to agree with one thing that's been brought up here: the PbP messages for errors tend to be fairly vague. It's usually something like, "[player] is over to field it... but he botched it! That'll be an error." There's one specific one that I tend to see, where a player "throws the ball into the outfield!" on a throw to second base, and it sometimes results in an extra base for the runner, and sometimes just has him safe at second.

I rationalize it in my head based on the outcome: if the runners don't advance, it pulled the guy off the bag, or the center fielder was right there to back it up. Stuff like that. It's not a huge deal to me, but it is an area of the PbP that I feel could use some work.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

And you do a fantastic job. However, I would tend to agree with one thing that's been brought up here: the PbP messages for errors tend to be fairly vague. It's usually something like, "[player] is over to field it... but he botched it! That'll be an error." There's one specific one that I tend to see, where a player "throws the ball into the outfield!" on a throw to second base, and it sometimes results in an extra base for the runner, and sometimes just has him safe at second.

I rationalize it in my head based on the outcome: if the runners don't advance, it pulled the guy off the bag, or the center fielder was right there to back it up. Stuff like that. It's not a huge deal to me, but it is an area of the PbP that I feel could use some work.

They are vague because the controls available for the descriptions don't allow for the description to match the result with 100% accuracy. He MUST make one description cover multiple outcomes.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by Questdog

They are vague because the controls available for the descriptions don't allow for the description to match the result with 100% accuracy. He MUST make one description cover multiple outcomes.

I know; I understand completely. I was just mentioning it, giving an example of how the PbP can be vague at times, since it's come up in this thread.

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

And you do a fantastic job. However, I would tend to agree with one thing that's been brought up here: the PbP messages for errors tend to be fairly vague. It's usually something like, "[player] is over to field it... but he botched it! That'll be an error." There's one specific one that I tend to see, where a player "throws the ball into the outfield!" on a throw to second base, and it sometimes results in an extra base for the runner, and sometimes just has him safe at second.

I rationalize it in my head based on the outcome: if the runners don't advance, it pulled the guy off the bag, or the center fielder was right there to back it up. Stuff like that. It's not a huge deal to me, but it is an area of the PbP that I feel could use some work.

'Dog has it right. On errors, the PbP has to be generic. The "X throws the ball into the outfield" is hardcoded. Again, it has to fit multiple scenarios. However, Markus did add a couple of variations to this particular piece of hardcoded PbP. So, at least, it's not ALWAYS the same line!

[DCG12]

I took some time this morning (I play for an hour or so while I have coffee and stream local news in the background) and looked at game logs for the last 20 games in my current season. I could do more but it is tedious and I don't think it is needed.

What I found was how infrequent hits to left are with runners on first or second. I found 5 plays with a runner on first and a double to left or left center. The runner held up at third 4 of those 5 times. I found several plays where a runner scored from first but in all cases the double was hit to center or right.

The runner scoring from second on a single to left scenario I found 4 plays and the runner held up 3 of the 4 times. Two of those times happened in one inning.

I personally am putting this one to bed cause I can't find any problem and I need my OOTP fix.

[DCG12]

Quick follow up. The first game I played this morning I had bases loaded, line drive to left runner on third scores every one else moves up one base.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by pstrickert

The PbP differentiates between ground ball base hits, line drive base hits, and non-line drive (or softer) base hits. The type of hit is factored into the outcome of the play (as far as I can tell). To the best of my ability, I've tried to ensure that the PbP description "fits" the category it belongs to (though, granted, some of the PbP expressions may still be ambiguous).

I realize this, but it wasn't my point. I should've been more clear. My point was that there are many more types of hits than OOTP has. Not all line drive hits are the same, not all softer hits are the same. Some line drives are 10 feet left of the left fielder, some are 15 feet right of him. Some bloop hits fall just in front of the left fielder, some fall just over the shortstop, some fall in the "Bermuda triangle" down the line.

The crux of my post was that we have to use our imagination a little. The OP was railing on "all singles to left" without any consideration for the fact that there are nearly countless types of singles to left in baseball, even if the pbp doesn't include every single one imaginable.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't have a problem with the play by play, so I don't want anyone to think I'm saying the play by play is bad. My point was that the OP needs to understand that when the play by play describes a single to left, it's not always screaming one-hopper at the left fielder that's hard to advance on. But the OP has apparently disappeared from this thread (surprise, surprise), so while this is all really directed at him, it's kinda moot now, so I'm going to let it be.

[Matt Arnold]

I find that whenever I want my runner to score, he never does. And whenever it doesn't seem to matter (ie. I'm up 6-2) or when I really don't want it to (ie. the other team is up), they always seem to take that extra base. But pretty sure that's just memory bias.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I realize this, but it wasn't my point. I should've been more clear. My point was that there are many more types of hits than OOTP has. Not all line drive hits are the same, not all softer hits are the same. Some line drives are 10 feet left of the left fielder, some are 15 feet right of him. Some bloop hits fall just in front of the left fielder, some fall just over the shortstop, some fall in the "Bermuda triangle" down the line.

The crux of my post was that we have to use our imagination a little. The OP was railing on "all singles to left" without any consideration for the fact that there are nearly countless types of singles to left in baseball, even if the pbp doesn't include every single one imaginable.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't have a problem with the play by play, so I don't want anyone to think I'm saying the play by play is bad. My point was that the OP needs to understand that when the play by play describes a single to left, it's not always screaming one-hopper at the left fielder that's hard to advance on. But the OP has apparently disappeared from this thread (surprise, surprise), so while this is all really directed at him, it's kinda moot now, so I'm going to let it be.

And that's what I was expanding on with my bit on Errors in the PbP. Never intended to come off as critical.

[tomwolf2008]

I would also like to dispute OP's claim
As you can see, it is possible to be throw out the 2nd base runner on the base hit to left, so no, THEY DO NOT always score

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

True, a slow runner can score from second on a base hit to left *if* the outfielder juggles it, it hits a sprinkler, or a seagull or something. But not EVERY RUNNER ALL THE TIME! SERIOUSLY?!

I've done said informal study. Base running in OOTP is far from accurate.

As said by others here: Prove it! Show us your data.

You're the only person that sees this problem. So give us some reason to believe this is a real problem.

[Painmantle]

what bugs me is a runner on 3rd scores 100% of the time on a hit to LF. shouldn't he fall down every once in a while and be thrown out or sit there daydreaming and cause one of those 7-6-2-4-2-1-3-2-7-1-2 rundowns? That runner always scoring from 3rd on a hit to LF makes this fanboy mad sometimes!

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I realize this, but it wasn't my point. I should've been more clear. My point was that there are many more types of hits than OOTP has. Not all line drive hits are the same, not all softer hits are the same. Some line drives are 10 feet left of the left fielder, some are 15 feet right of him. Some bloop hits fall just in front of the left fielder, some fall just over the shortstop, some fall in the "Bermuda triangle" down the line.

The crux of my post was that we have to use our imagination a little. The OP was railing on "all singles to left" without any consideration for the fact that there are nearly countless types of singles to left in baseball, even if the pbp doesn't include every single one imaginable.

EDIT TO ADD: I don't have a problem with the play by play, so I don't want anyone to think I'm saying the play by play is bad. My point was that the OP needs to understand that when the play by play describes a single to left, it's not always screaming one-hopper at the left fielder that's hard to advance on. But the OP has apparently disappeared from this thread (surprise, surprise), so while this is all really directed at him, it's kinda moot now, so I'm going to let it be.

Oh I'm right here... Reading all these whiny fan-boy posts. Every one stop sucking your thumbs and put your blankies down please. It's OK to be slightly critical of this wonderful game.

Look, there are a zillion ways you can get a base hit to left. But the ones where you can score from 2nd base are FAR less common than the ones you can't. In OOTP, I find it happens a lot more than it should, that's all.

Do I have some analysis that proves my point? Um... not really. That's because I leave my house and go to work for a living.

I'd love to have a some intricate spread sheet for you proving my point, but ya know, I have a life and stuff. Occasionally I get to squeeze in a game of OOTP where all the base runners on 2nd score on a hit to left.

Nothing like a post that is only slightly critical of OOTP to draw all the crying whiners out.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Oh I'm right here... Reading all these whiny fan-boy posts. Every one stop sucking your thumbs and put your blankies down please. It's OK to be slightly critical of this wonderful game.

Look, there are a zillion ways you can get a base hit to left. But the ones where you can score from 2nd base are FAR less common than the ones you can't. In OOTP, I find it happens a lot more than it should, that's all.

Do I have some analysis that proves my point? Um... not really. That's because I leave my house and go to work for a living.

I'd love to have a some intricate spread sheet for you proving my point, but ya know, I have a life and stuff. Occasionally I get to squeeze in a game of OOTP where all the base runners on 2nd score on a hit to left.

Nothing like a post that is only slightly critical of OOTP to draw all the crying whiners out.

Lame.....all you have to do is while you are playing mark down how often it actually happens and how often it doesn't......after you play a month or two in game, you'll have something to prove your point....or, more likely, realize that you were not correct in your assumption.....

That is just what I have been doing, and though I have only played a week of games, you're assertion appears in dire straits........MORE players are holding at 3rd on hits to left than are scoring......that means that less than 50% are scoring, which is a little less than 99%......granted this is a small sample, but the odds of something that happens 99% of the time overall happening less than 50% of the time in 15 trials is pretty slim......

And you'd do well to stick to the discussion of the evidence for your theory and not theorizing on the agendas of those who disagree with you.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Oh I'm right here... Reading all these whiny fan-boy posts. Every one stop sucking your thumbs and put your blankies down please. It's OK to be slightly critical of this wonderful game.

Look, there are a zillion ways you can get a base hit to left. But the ones where you can score from 2nd base are FAR less common than the ones you can't. In OOTP, I find it happens a lot more than it should, that's all.

Do I have some analysis that proves my point? Um... not really. That's because I leave my house and go to work for a living.

I'd love to have a some intricate spread sheet for you proving my point, but ya know, I have a life and stuff. Occasionally I get to squeeze in a game of OOTP where all the base runners on 2nd score on a hit to left.

Nothing like a post that is only slightly critical of OOTP to draw all the crying whiners out.

I just got back from a three day business trip in which I played no OOTP. What a surprise! Not only can I leave my house but I can also leave the country and find my way back. The not surprising part about that is the fact that you were wrong initially, are wrong now and will be wrong tomorrow (or today for accuracy's sake). So you're wrong and employed, nice to know. Next you'll be wanting to compare weenie size. No thanks.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Do I have some analysis that proves my point? Um... not really. That's because I leave my house and go to work for a living.

Read: "That's because I'm afraid I'll prove myself wrong."

EDIT: In all seriousness, how old are you? I haven't heard the "because I have a life" argument since high school.