Baserunning isn't right

[drksd4848]

Anybody notice this:

Too many slow footed base runners are able to score from 2nd on base hits (singles) to left field, or able to go from first to third. Or score from 1st base on extra base hits.

Doesn't matter where its hit, how slow the base runner is (I'm talking about guys with single digit speed ratings), or how strong the outfielder's arm is. It seems like anybody and their grandmother can take two bases.

It's kind of annoying and it doesn't seem accurate.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Anybody notice this:

Too many slow footed base runners are able to score from 2nd on base hits (singles) to left field, or able to go from first to third. Or score from 1st base on extra base hits.

Doesn't matter where its hit, how slow the base runner is (I'm talking about guys with single digit speed ratings), or how strong the outfielder's arm is. It seems like anybody and their grandmother can take two bases.

It's kind of annoying and it doesn't seem accurate.

I believe the baserrunning Issue was brought before and Markus was made aware of it

[Questdog]

I do not think this is an issue.....even slow runners can take 2 bases on hits sometimes......speedy runners definitely do this more often in OOTP than slow runners, but sometimes there are hits that the speed does not matter.....

If someone wanted to do a study over many games and tabulate exactly what the differences are between speedy guys and slow guys, that would be great, but also something that must be done by hand and would be very tedious.....

[pstrickert]

Eyeballing it, I've seen few problems with baserunning in OOTP14. I believe Markus responded to user complaints and greatly improved this aspect of the game. So, I agree with 'Dog: not an issue.

[drksd4848]

Originally Posted by Questdog

I do not think this is an issue.....even slow runners can take 2 bases on hits sometimes......speedy runners definitely do this more often in OOTP than slow runners, but sometimes there are hits that the speed does not matter.....

If someone wanted to do a study over many games and tabulate exactly what the differences are between speedy guys and slow guys, that would be great, but also something that must be done by hand and would be very tedious.....

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Eyeballing it, I've seen few problems with baserunning in OOTP14. I believe Markus responded to user complaints and greatly improved this aspect of the game. So, I agree with 'Dog: not an issue.

Mmmmm... nope. Disagree with both of you. Unless it was fixed in 14.5 (I'm running 14.3 b/c of graphics issues) The base running in 14 is no better than it was in 13. It was actually better in 12.

True, a slow runner can score from second on a base hit to left *if* the outfielder juggles it, it hits a sprinkler, or a seagull or something. But not EVERY RUNNER ALL THE TIME! SERIOUSLY?!

I've done said informal study. Base running in OOTP is far from accurate.

C'mon! I'm glad Markus is aware of it.

[Questdog]

I know for a fact that even speedy runners don't score every time from second on a hit to left. And there is nothing special about a hit to left, anyway. Runners should be able to score from second just as easily as hits to other reaches of the outfield. In real baseball they should score more often than hits to center or right simply because the leftfielder is often the fella with the weakest arm. Now, on going from 1st to third, hits to left ought to be more difficult to advance on, but going from second to home, there should be no difference other than the outfielder's arm.

[rpriske]

The baserunnign issue I fine the most annoying is when somebody gets two bases on a simple infield error. "He has trouble digging the ball out of his glove" and the runner socres from second? Does he have crazy glue in there or something?

[BIG17EASY]

Not every hit is right at the outfielder.

I don't play out my games, so I can't say whether or not this is a problem. But assuming that slow runner should rarely advance two bases on a hit to left is a little naive. Every base hit is not the same, nor does OOTP differentiate between the nearly countless types of hits (bloops, line drives, balls in the gap, balls right at an outfielder, 50 hoppers through the hole, etc.). That's one of the reasons I don't play out games. I'd like to see more variety in how hits are described.

Plus, remember that it's not just the player's speed rating that determines if he advances two bases. He might have a low speed rating, but a high baserunning rating, which means he gets good jumps and reads balls well.

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by rpriske

The baserunnign issue I fine the most annoying is when somebody gets two bases on a simple infield error. "He has trouble digging the ball out of his glove" and the runner socres from second? Does he have crazy glue in there or something?

Ignore what the commentary says, because it doesn't actually have an effect on the outcome. This is part of the reason (along with the fact that it gets games done quicker) that I play with short pbp. All I see is the result.

[drksd4848]

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

You have actually kept data on this issue? I would be interested to see your OOTP count compared to real life. It is this kind of data that will allow Markus to tune the game to realistic numbers. Without data to prove your point where should he start?

Markus would have to confirm this but I believer he has diagnostic programs that pull almost anything from his test games to see what is happening. I would think he has the ability to see exactly how many runners are scoring on hits from second or going from first to third anytime he wants. Barring some hard data he is apparently satisfied with OOTP's current output. Great thing about Markus is IF you can show him hard data to confirm your claim he is usually more than happy to act on it. If its too late for v14 than at least it would be looked into for v15 (there has to be an end to each version at sometime).

FWIW I play out all of my games and don't get the feeling that anything is wrong. Some score, some don't. Some get thrown out trying, some don't. My gut feeling is that OOTP does a good job approximating real life in these situations. I am much more likely to remember base-running that goes against my team IE my slow runner stops at third ( I guarantee you MY runners don't score EVERY time, not even close ) their slow runner scores. My slow runner is thrown out, the AI runner is safe etc. I put that down to my human nature.

Again though if you have hard data we can look at and then try to confirm in our games I am more than willing to listen.

[t-bone shuffle]

Let's also keep in mind that this is affected by the Outfield Assist modifier in the Strategy Setup of the league.

[DCG12]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

Ok I had no real interest in responding until I saw this. Documented? really? by who? Fanboys? because we don't agree there's a problem? If you were around a couple versions ago (I was still on the beta team at the time) the issue was the opposite i.e. runners were station to station too often. I actually did a study where I kept track of how often runners were taking an extra base on singles and doubles and at the time Markus did make some changes.

Now to the ridiculous statement the runners from second score EVERY TIME (your emphasis). I only had to look at the last two games I played to dispute that claim.

Example 1-Bennett is on first Douglas doubles Bennett stops at third and scores later on the ground out. Cobb singles and Douglas stops at third to score later on the sac fly. After an intentional walk Barnard singles and everyone moves up one base and score on the grand slam. Thats three examples in one inning.

Example 2-This is the AI team. Green on second Leslie singles runner stops at third.


I didn't think I needed to go back any further to debunk your claim. If you are seeing EVERY runner score you have changed something somewhere.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

I play every inning out of every game and I assure you that it is NOT anywhere near 99%.......

I'm gonna start keeping track in my games....

There is no one who plays this game that desires and fights for realistic results more than I do.....when I see a problem, I report it loud and clear....but this does not seem to be a problem....

But we'll see what the counts show in my games.....

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by DCG12

Ok I had no real interest in responding until I saw this. Documented? really? by who? Fanboys? because we don't agree there's a problem? If you were around a couple versions ago (I was still on the beta team at the time) the issue was the opposite i.e. runners were station to station too often. I actually did a study where I kept track of how often runners were taking an extra base on singles and doubles and at the time Markus did make some changes.

Now to the ridiculous statement the runners from second score EVERY TIME (your emphasis). I only had to look at the last two games I played to dispute that claim.

Example 1-Bennett is on first Douglas doubles Bennett stops at third and scores later on the ground out. Cobb singles and Douglas stops at third to score later on the sac fly. After an intentional walk Barnard singles and everyone moves up one base and score on the grand slam. Thats three examples in one inning.

Example 2-This is the AI team. Green on second Leslie singles runner stops at third.


I didn't think I needed to go back any further to debunk your claim. If you are seeing EVERY runner score you have changed something somewhere.

Well, not to debunk your debunk, but his claim is only for singles to left and neither of those examples you provide seem to be singles to left......

[DCG12]

Originally Posted by Questdog

Well, not to debunk your debunk, but his claim is only for singles to left and neither of those examples you provide seem to be singles to left......

Ok but if they don't score on hits to right then why would they score on hits to left? Both doubles do go to left center for what its worth. But in the spirit of fairness I will go look at left field hits specifically. I think you know what I will find though and that's nothing out of the ordinary

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by DCG12

Ok but if they don't score on hits to right then why would they score on hits to left? Both doubles do go to left center for what its worth. But in the spirit of fairness I will go look at left field hits specifically. I think you know what I will find though and that's nothing out of the ordinary

I hope not and I am going to be alert to it too.....but stranger things have happened before that I thought were impossible....

[slugga27]

Originally Posted by drksd4848

Yes, but EVERY runner scores. Base hit to left, runner on 2nd scores, 99% of the time. It's an issue - documented. Stop being fanboys.

Well, if we're fanboys, then you're a hater, plain and simple. Looking at your posts from this thread, in your mind, it's your way or the highway. I want to see hard data. I play out all my games and don't see the issue. And, I can almost guarantee that I've played out thousands of games more than you have. Why does that matter? Two words: sample size.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Let's also keep in mind that this is affected by the Outfield Assist modifier in the Strategy Setup of the league.

There are two settings in the engine.cfg file (see below) that outside of actual player attributes, control the issue under discussion. As Sweed says Markus has data to support the default setting and I don't think any of us can estimate using a limited sample size better than that. Based on my faulty judgement I set both of these to 105 for my fictional leagues.

The OF assists modifier is a global setting for all OF assists. It's unlikely to have nearly as much effect on scoring from second.

See this extract from the manual.

Out of the Park Baseball Manual

GAME_EXTRA_BASE_FROM_THIRD_FREQUENCY Sets the frequency of players attempting advance from third to home on a play. Higher = more attempted advances
GAME_EXTRA_BASE_FROM_THIRD_SUCCESS Sets the frequency of players successfully scoring after advancing from third. Higher = more success

[pstrickert]

Originally Posted by slugga27

Ignore what the commentary says, because it doesn't actually have an effect on the outcome. This is part of the reason (along with the fact that it gets games done quicker) that I play with short pbp. All I see is the result.

The text DB does not contain a category for two-base errors. This is something that is controlled elsewhere (which means Markus will have to fix it). Of course, he may not consider it a problem that occurs often enough to fiddle with.