Finance Question

pumph · 09-04-2013, 05:06 PM

I want to pick up a player on waiver who has a $4 million salary, and we're about 110 games into a 162-game season. So, he's got less than $2million left.

But, I can't make the claim because I can't afford his salary. I don't quite understand it because while it says I have plenty of money to go sign a free agent, it won't let me claim this player, or offer any extensions. My projected budget is the same next season, and my projected payroll is lower. I also have over 60 million in cash. Someone help me out here?

Nunyer · 09-04-2013, 05:17 PM

Well, the sticking point is that -$9.6m for your projected budget. I don't believe cash on hand is considered part of that when dealing with trades / waivers. I don't have an explanation why it's a separate thing... but it is.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 09-04-2013, 05:20 PM

You are $9.6M over-budget this year. The money you currently have available for using on free agents is due to your hefty cash reserve. Cash is counted toward your available funds for free agents, but not toward your funds available for extensions. This is because your cash pool can decrease significantly in the offseason based on the cash max setting in your league, or the whim of your owner. If the figures shown on your financial screen are accurate, the game is correct that you don't have any projected budget room next year for extensions.

Mecza · 09-04-2013, 05:24 PM

Bingo. The magic number is projected budget room. I always give myself some wiggle room for in season moves. With 9 million in the hole, you'll need to free all of that up and then some to get the guy.

pumph · 09-04-2013, 05:39 PM

It's a team I took over after the start of the season and was not able to trim as much as I wanted to. But I'm still on pace to earn a profit. On top of the cash I have, you'd think I'd get the wiggle room needed to pick up a player that that can help me, as I'm in the lead for the wildcard, and struggling to hold on.

I also have several players with club options and hefty salaries that I'm not picking up. I wish there was a way to show ownership my planned budget for the next season and have them ok this move. The player in question would instantly be my #4 SP and a nice little upgrade for me.

hefalumps · 09-04-2013, 05:50 PM

What I'm curious about is if he's allowed to use his cash reserve to sign a free agent for the remainder of the season, why won't OOTP allow him to use the cash reserve to claim someone on waivers? Isn't it effectively the same thing?

Is the guy you're trying to claim after this season a free agent, or does his contract go beyond the end of the year? If he's not a FA at season's end, then maybe this makes sense, as his additional salary next year would put you even further in the hole for next year. Does OOTP take that into account?

Nunyer · 09-04-2013, 08:08 PM

Even if a guy is in his final contract year, you can't trade for him if he puts your current budget into the red... so I assume the same holds for waivers... but I was only just able to test the trade scenario.

EDIT: It is a bit silly that he could sign a $40m free agent if one was available but not a $4m waiver pick up... I guess you could weasel it via commissioner mode... Just edit the player, assign him to your team, edit the financials and take $4m from the cash reserves and add it to the current budget. That would simulate the waiver pickup. But I really don't know how all the financials would wash out at the end of season... I've always avoided edited the money numbers in the past... as in old versions of the game it could cause weird owner behavior.

Orcin · 09-04-2013, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumph

It's a team I took over after the start of the season and was not able to trim as much as I wanted to. But I'm still on pace to earn a profit.

Unfortunately, that's not relevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumph

On top of the cash I have, you'd think I'd get the wiggle room needed to pick up a player that that can help me, as I'm in the lead for the wildcard, and struggling to hold on.

The game does not have a "wiggle room" clause. The budget is firm.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pumph

I wish there was a way to show ownership my planned budget for the next season and have them ok this move. The player in question would instantly be my #4 SP and a nice little upgrade for me.

Again, that's just not part of the game design. Your owner is an economizer, so his highest priority is going to be getting his hands on your cash anyway. He probably doesn't care so much about winning, or he would be more demanding.

One key fact is not known here, unless I missed it. Does this player have an expiring contract?

If not, your only solution is to make "none" under "$ for extensions" go away by reducing contract $ for next season via trades. Since you are probably past the trade deadline, that won't be a solution for you.

If his contract does expire and therefore does not impact next season, your problem is the current year budget room. As pointed out earlier, cash does not count for taking on a player already under contract. It may not make sense, and I am not trying to defend it. I am just telling you how the game works.

One thing that you could do is release players with future contracts. That will cause you to lose money in the current year because the entire contract amount would be accelerated into the current year P&L. I don't recommend that either, because your economizer owner would likely fire you for losing money.

Bottom line.... there is no solution that allows you to claim the player.

Mike Lowe · 12-04-2013, 07:02 PM

Can someone explain this one?

In the offseason, and I have a projected budget room of $26M.
$8M in cash
$30 in offered contracts (shown in red)
$4M+ left for free agents

However, with a guy I'm negotiating with, underneath the details of the contract, it tells me that I have $-8.5M (shown in red).

So, do I have negative or $4M left if these guys all sign?

Confused!

PSUColonel · 12-04-2013, 07:35 PM

I agree, that if he can sign a free agent for 40 million, he should be able to pick up this player via waivers. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Fyrestorm3 · 12-04-2013, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Lowe

Can someone explain this one?

In the offseason, and I have a projected budget room of $26M.
$8M in cash
$30 in offered contracts (shown in red)
$4M+ left for free agents

However, with a guy I'm negotiating with, underneath the details of the contract, it tells me that I have $-8.5M (shown in red).

So, do I have negative or $4M left if these guys all sign?

Confused!

I believe this applies to free agents as well as trades: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...dget-room.html

Put simply, the negotiation screen is correct. It's the one using next year's payroll, while your finances screen is "stuck" on last year's payroll until the date rolls over.

fhomess · 12-06-2013, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyer

EDIT: It is a bit silly that he could sign a $40m free agent if one was available but not a $4m waiver pick up.

It's not a bit silly. It's a bug and needs to be treated as such. There is no fundamental difference between the salary of players acquired in different ways. They all get paid out the same in the end. One of the big problems with the financials in OOTP is how inconsistently they're applied in various cases. These things desperately need to be fixed for financials to make sense.

Matt Arnold · 12-06-2013, 04:51 PM

For sure. There's zero reason why I should be allowed to sign a big FA, but I can't trade for a guy who will put me in the same spot on my balance sheet.

And for future payroll, it should only count committed money. The fact that my 5th SP has a projected arbitration estimate of 12M, or that I have an aging vet with a team option I won't pick up for 20M, those numbers should not count towards my future payroll. Let me worry about the off-season in the off-season. Don't let me offer arbitration to players that will put me over my budget, sure. But don't prevent me from bringing in a guy on a 1 year deal just because next year he *might* be more expensive.

09-04-2013, 05:06 PM	#1
pumph Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 94	Finance Question I want to pick up a player on waiver who has a $4 million salary, and we're about 110 games into a 162-game season. So, he's got less than $2million left. But, I can't make the claim because I can't afford his salary. I don't quite understand it because while it says I have plenty of money to go sign a free agent, it won't let me claim this player, or offer any extensions. My projected budget is the same next season, and my projected payroll is lower. I also have over 60 million in cash. Someone help me out here?

09-04-2013, 05:20 PM	#3
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,118	You are $9.6M over-budget this year. The money you currently have available for using on free agents is due to your hefty cash reserve. Cash is counted toward your available funds for free agents, but not toward your funds available for extensions. This is because your cash pool can decrease significantly in the offseason based on the cash max setting in your league, or the whim of your owner. If the figures shown on your financial screen are accurate, the game is correct that you don't have any projected budget room next year for extensions. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason

09-04-2013, 08:08 PM	#7
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Even if a guy is in his final contract year, you can't trade for him if he puts your current budget into the red... so I assume the same holds for waivers... but I was only just able to test the trade scenario. EDIT: It is a bit silly that he could sign a $40m free agent if one was available but not a $4m waiver pick up... I guess you could weasel it via commissioner mode... Just edit the player, assign him to your team, edit the financials and take $4m from the cash reserves and add it to the current budget. That would simulate the waiver pickup. But I really don't know how all the financials would wash out at the end of season... I've always avoided edited the money numbers in the past... as in old versions of the game it could cause weird owner behavior. Last edited by Nunyer; 09-04-2013 at 08:13 PM.

09-04-2013, 05:17 PM	#2
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Well, the sticking point is that -$9.6m for your projected budget. I don't believe cash on hand is considered part of that when dealing with trades / waivers. I don't have an explanation why it's a separate thing... but it is.

09-04-2013, 05:24 PM	#4
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	Bingo. The magic number is projected budget room. I always give myself some wiggle room for in season moves. With 9 million in the hole, you'll need to free all of that up and then some to get the guy.

09-04-2013, 05:39 PM	#5
pumph Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 94	It's a team I took over after the start of the season and was not able to trim as much as I wanted to. But I'm still on pace to earn a profit. On top of the cash I have, you'd think I'd get the wiggle room needed to pick up a player that that can help me, as I'm in the lead for the wildcard, and struggling to hold on. I also have several players with club options and hefty salaries that I'm not picking up. I wish there was a way to show ownership my planned budget for the next season and have them ok this move. The player in question would instantly be my #4 SP and a nice little upgrade for me.

09-04-2013, 05:50 PM	#6
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	What I'm curious about is if he's allowed to use his cash reserve to sign a free agent for the remainder of the season, why won't OOTP allow him to use the cash reserve to claim someone on waivers? Isn't it effectively the same thing? Is the guy you're trying to claim after this season a free agent, or does his contract go beyond the end of the year? If he's not a FA at season's end, then maybe this makes sense, as his additional salary next year would put you even further in the hole for next year. Does OOTP take that into account?

12-04-2013, 07:02 PM	#9
Mike Lowe Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,178	Can someone explain this one? In the offseason, and I have a projected budget room of $26M. $8M in cash $30 in offered contracts (shown in red) $4M+ left for free agents However, with a guy I'm negotiating with, underneath the details of the contract, it tells me that I have $-8.5M (shown in red). So, do I have negative or $4M left if these guys all sign? Confused!

12-04-2013, 07:35 PM	#10
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,143	I agree, that if he can sign a free agent for 40 million, he should be able to pick up this player via waivers. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

12-06-2013, 04:51 PM	#13
Matt Arnold OOTP Developer Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Here and there Posts: 16,254	For sure. There's zero reason why I should be allowed to sign a big FA, but I can't trade for a guy who will put me in the same spot on my balance sheet. And for future payroll, it should only count committed money. The fact that my 5th SP has a projected arbitration estimate of 12M, or that I have an aging vet with a team option I won't pick up for 20M, those numbers should not count towards my future payroll. Let me worry about the off-season in the off-season. Don't let me offer arbitration to players that will put me over my budget, sure. But don't prevent me from bringing in a guy on a 1 year deal just because next year he might be more expensive.