Release Time on September 3

[Mickeyb37]

I think they have largely ignored the amount of bugs that users have reported, some of which are major issues, and steamrollered ahead to release date working on what seems to meet their own agenda.

The beta process is about allowing people to test a product, find bugs and those bugs get corrected. When major issues get ignored it reduces the confidence that the team actually know how to fix them and in what the final product is going to be like.

Releasing a game with known major bugs after a lengthy beta process is I think unacceptable. When you have also charged people money to be involved in an open beta process and then also ingnored their bug reports is diplorable.

[pens66]

Originally Posted by Mickeyb37

I think they have largely ignored the amount of bugs that users have reported, some of which are major issues, and steamrollered ahead to release date working on what seems to meet their own agenda.

They not only work to meet their own agenda at all. They actually changed their release goals quite a bit to please the forums users here. And that's, I believe, what's causing problems now. Sebastian simply tried to add too much too soon and then couldn't cope with the amount of problems that came up.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by pens66

They not only work to meet their own agenda at all. They actually changed their release goals quite a bit to please the forums users here. And that's, I believe, what's causing problems now. Sebastian simply tried to add too much too soon and then couldn't cope with the amount of problems that came up.

I remember real-time was suppose to be on the first release and the ability to schedule neutral site games was also promised.

[PromisedPain]

I think instead of adding custom leagues etc. they should've fixed all possible bugs (actually make the game playable)

It's always nice to have more content, but when it's buggy and unplayable, it's quite annoying. I'd rather play a game that was 100% stable than a game that's buggy as hell, but has a lot more content. Anyway, I'm still excited for the face gen which will make the game more interesting for me, but i'd like to see the contract bugs and stability issues go.

I'm also sad that they removed the scouting reports. Scouting reports made the game more interesting (I'm sure they'll be patching it back in to the game thought)

[SlyBelle]

Originally Posted by Mickeyb37

I think they have largely ignored the amount of bugs that users have reported, some of which are major issues, and steamrollered ahead to release date working on what seems to meet their own agenda.

The beta process is about allowing people to test a product, find bugs and those bugs get corrected. When major issues get ignored it reduces the confidence that the team actually know how to fix them and in what the final product is going to be like.

Releasing a game with known major bugs after a lengthy beta process is I think unacceptable. When you have also charged people money to be involved in an open beta process and then also ingnored their bug reports is diplorable.

In the end, it seems like today's release will be nothing more than an extension of the beta process, which I am not sure is a good thing. People will buy today (at a higher price) but will likely not be able to enjoy a fully playable game for some time. I am confident they will release patches and not stop development, but how many patches will it take and how long will it take until the customers feel confident enough to invest their time in it? And no, people should not be willing to accept all the issues just because it is a version #1 release or because it is an investment in the future development of the game. People expect a game to be reasonably playable upon release, regardless of the version number. Don't get me wrong, other companies I am sure sometimes release games before their time, but I think these types of games are different. A career text based game is a lot different than other games. It requires a lot of investment in setting it up and managing many years of your universe. The last thing you want to do is put all that energy into it and a year into your universe the game crashes or becomes unstable. I personally have no energy to invest that amount of time until I feel confident the major issues have been solved, but I am sure others will feel differently.

I do agree with other's thoughts the first release might have been too ambitious, but that is too late now. I am hoping at least some information is provided to new customers ahead of their purchase about the state of the game to at least allow the customers to make an informed decision, if they have not been following the forums. If they choose to purchase fully knowing the state of affairs, then that is one thing. Not knowing, is another.

[pens66]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

I remember real-time was suppose to be on the first release and the ability to schedule neutral site games was also promised.

Yes. Concerning the neutral site games: They are obviously a casualty of the first version becoming "too big". I guess it would be no problem to handle neutral site games, but at the moment there's not even a schedule editor, which was supposed to be in the game, as well.

[Jabez54]

I, totally agreed in what most of you, mates, are saying ... but we should wait until after the FHM 1 be officially out the door, later on today ... for I'm sure the developers would not want to rush out their official product - and only to find - that we, as paying customers, still discover that the product is almost the same as the current Beta version ... that would NOT be to their best interest from the business end ... It would be as similar to BM14, for the game was NOT ready to be released ... and because of the bugs and the lack of response from Clay, I would no longer buy that Game ... in as much as, there are mates here, who would not be interested in PS, because of Shaun's development (which, BTW, now the Game is free and it's really good for the price) ... so let just wait and see ... for we ALL hope that the Game will be a success ... (it would be to our benefits toward the future of the Gold Standard of PC Hockey Game) ...

[pisquid]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

I remember real-time was suppose to be on the first release and the ability to schedule neutral site games was also promised.

I think this is part of the problem that the developers are having.

With all due respect to Orioles1966, how many people really care about neutral site games? Not that there's anything wrong with his request, but I'm just using it as an example.

We the beta testers have added an ever growing list of demands/wants/needs to the list and, probably to a fault, the developers have tried to add as many as possible. Maybe this has caused development of the game core to suffer a bit.

Version 1 may not be perfect, but what a great start and what promise this game has. To me the small investment I've made towards it's development is money well spent. Some people will be unhappy but I see it as a first step towards the development of the ultimate hockey simulator game, much like OOTP is the ultimate baseball product.

[Puckhead]

Originally Posted by pisquid

I think this is part of the problem that the developers are having.

With all due respect to Orioles1966, how many people really care about neutral site games? Not that there's anything wrong with his request, but I'm just using it as an example.

We the beta testers have added an ever growing list of demands/wants/needs to the list and, probably to a fault, the developers have tried to add as many as possible. Maybe this has caused development of the game core to suffer a bit.

Version 1 may not be perfect, but what a great start and what promise this game has. To me the small investment I've made towards it's development is money well spent. Some people will be unhappy but I see it as a first step towards the development of the ultimate hockey simulator game, much like OOTP is the ultimate baseball product.

Awesome post, man!

Since the devs were able to realize modes (or partly implement those with some bugs), there will be more updates on the horizon after version 1.0 today. I'm pretty sure that when we'll all stay positive and keep supporting the devs with bug reports, this game is going to be amazing very soon and a lot better than EHM because there are way more customization options for us users.

[Orioles1966]

There are neutral site games on the current NHL schedule (outdoor games)and I didn't look too see if it is mentioned on the latest beta update.

[mgom27]

What I meant is give the game a Command and it wil do it for you to get things done in a minute like you want Active Players who are either Free-Agents or another Team but don't have rights with your team who have played on the Blues moved to the Blues the Computer would do it for you same go with Drafted by Blues.

Game might still have Bugs it's just first version and NHL has Problems to do you see them getting fixed no.

They might have tried something's out and noticed they aren't ready to be turned on like Exspanion Draft.

[PromisedPain]

Just little over an hour left. =]

[fireholder]

Holy crap... you people.

We, a league with more than 400 players, had planned on using FHM as our platform. It was an opportunity to support developers and also use a game that I was already confident in.

Legitimately custom leagues/game world and the ability to have multiple GMs were the only real needs we had. This was a year ago when the game was planned to come out last winter. We got on board as actual testers around then, and the things we needed have still yet to happen.

And I would still, absolutely, not complain.

Some people are ridiculously self-centered. Peripheral features (like facegen, neutral sites, etc) should be secondary to gameplay/AI, accuracy/rules, and customization/tweaking.

Many of you come from the baseball sim world. I come from the hockey sim world. I played Freeware EHM for hours a day back at the turn of the century. The very idea of a "historical game" was a project, for 15 years (EA sports or EHM) that the community put together. It has never been done by a developer, and the hockey community has never really needed it to be. Personally I think that's a feature that could have waited (and the community could have supplied in the meantime, as it always has), but I think people are really taking for granted that it's there at all.

There's an additional spot for the "official" testers to discuss and bring things up. There are obscure rules and policies for every single league on this planet and the FHM Crew is working to make them all entirely accurate -- whereas in the past, from EHM to EA to every single fly-by-night hockey simulator, it has been "get it close." There are a ton of bugs and accuracy issues that are brought up and no one is ignoring them.

Every version is better than the last.

As a hockey gamer, I'm very used to "good enough." Being a part of something and seeing the FHM Crew strive for actual accuracy is awesome and admirable. I think it's more than we really need early on, but more importantly, with some of these responses, I think it's more than we even deserve.

Instead of going for quick fixes these guys are trying to make the AI act like a real person/team/entity does within their corresponding league in the real world. And there's a lot of leagues playable to take into account.

I'll end with the fact that management simulations haven't traditionally done very well in North America. I don't know what the Euro/World sales for FHM are compared to NA right now, but people look to console sports gaming waaaaaay before management sims. FHM could be an epic game right "out of the box" in 1 hour if they only focused only/primarily on the NHL, ignored historical stuff, and allowed way less flexibility. That's the recipe almost every other developer has always used. It really seems like that's what a good chunk of the vocal lot of you would have wanted.

But that would have severely minimized FHM's target market and isolated a lot of foreign support. The framework for an awesome game is here. Even after release it will need to be built on. Even with early flaws, the appeal is to the many instead of the few, and I think that's going to be the thing that allows FHM to prosper long-term.

[Nino33]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

I remember real-time was suppose to be on the first release and the ability to schedule neutral site games was also promised.

I don't think the developers ever "promised" real-time or neutral site games

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Nino33

I don't think the developers ever "promised" real-time or neutral site games

I could go search for the threads but why bother,the game will be here shortly.

[Mickeyb37]

As a long term player of EHM I wasnt interested in face gen or historical or custom modes or neutral venues. All I wanted was a game where I could conduct GM type business such as make trades, sign FA's, resign my players and play some hockey games without major crashes and bugs. Sounds like I was looking for a Hockey Management game like the one I paid my money to beta test and that isnt what is being delivered.

Yes the forum users have made some pretty big demands but that is down to the developers to pick what is important and for me that was the core of a hockey management game. Things like custom or historical mode should have been left to future versions.

[Puckhead]

Originally Posted by Mickeyb37

As a long term player of EHM I wasnt interested in face gen or historical or custom modes or neutral venues. All I wanted was a game where I could conduct GM type business such as make trades, sign FA's, resign my players and play some hockey games without major crashes and bugs. Sounds like I was looking for a Hockey Management game like the one I paid my money to beta test and that isnt what is being delivered.

Yes the forum users have made some pretty big demands but that is down to the developers to pick what is important and for me that was the core of a hockey management game. Things like custom or historical mode should have been left to future versions.

While I tend to agree that the other game modes should have been implemented after a more stable and better gameplay in the normal mode, I still think that the dev team is able to fix the biggest bugs and problems before the NHL season starts. Let's just keep our fingers crossed, everything will work itself out.

[PromisedPain]

Originally Posted by Mickeyb37

As a long term player of EHM I wasnt interested in face gen or historical or custom modes or neutral venues. All I wanted was a game where I could conduct GM type business such as make trades, sign FA's, resign my players and play some hockey games without major crashes and bugs. Sounds like I was looking for a Hockey Management game like the one I paid my money to beta test and that isnt what is being delivered.

Yes the forum users have made some pretty big demands but that is down to the developers to pick what is important and for me that was the core of a hockey management game. Things like custom or historical mode should have been left to future versions.

I agree with this, the stability is #1 for me, that's why I am sad about all the crashes and so on. The best thing about sims like EHM and FM is to ability to play endlessly, and I love drafting players, see new stars rise and so on. That's what has always been the most fun part about sims for me.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by Mickeyb37

As a long term player of EHM I wasnt interested in face gen or historical or custom modes or neutral venues. All I wanted was a game where I could conduct GM type business such as make trades, sign FA's, resign my players and play some hockey games without major crashes and bugs. Sounds like I was looking for a Hockey Management game like the one I paid my money to beta test and that isnt what is being delivered.

Yes the forum users have made some pretty big demands but that is down to the developers to pick what is important and for me that was the core of a hockey management game. Things like custom or historical mode should have been left to future versions.

The NHL becomes a Custom(or Fictional) League once fictional players are used so I don't know how people expected to play future leagues w/o fictional players.

[Mickeyb37]

Did I say I didn't expect there to be custom generated players for future seasons, I seem to remember EHM managed that without many issues. Just didn't see the need for custom leagues in the first version.