Trading approach

[battists]

Okay, so, I have just finished season two of my new fictional league. As I mentioned in a different thread, I like to start a team from the bottom and build them up, so in the inaugural draft I ended up with a pretty crappy major-league team, but the best minor-league system out there.

In year one, I finished in the cellar. In the first off-season, I scored a couple of stud free agents, and as a result I made it to the semifinals and won Manager of the Year.

As I head into year three, I am a little strapped financially, and I have a lot of good players who will still be in arbitration next year. I have 20 mil for FAs, but only 1 mil for extensions, probably due to all of the pending arbitration increases next year.

So I find myself wanting to fill a few holes on my major league squad, but I also need to try to keep my finances in order.

I have some stud players in AAA right now who are ready to come up. My ML roster has several adequate vets who I could move. So, I am thinking of delving into the trade market for the first time. Honestly, though, I have barely ever made trades in OOTP before!

I am curious though, how everyone approaches trading. I want to get a good deal, but I am not interested in "gaming the system." When I use the shop player around option, I pretty much never get anything back that I interested in.

For example, I need a 1B. I have an inadequate one on the roster now. Most of the first baseman in the free-agent market are either asking for 20 million per year, or they are not appreciably better than my current guy. None of my ML-ready minor leaguers can play 1b worth a darn.

I have a 30 year old starting pitcher, who put up decent numbers last season. Not a stud, but solid 3-star guy. Shop around gets me lots of offers, just nothing I want. He is signed for three more years at six mil per. I have a total stud in AAA waiting to fill his spot in the rotation. I would love to move the 30-year-old for an inexpensive but decent 1b and bring up the stud, thereby clearing some salary from the books in the process.

How would you guys approach something like this?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by battists

How would you guys approach something like this?

Only let them accept trades that make sense for them and be fair about it.

Dont allow yourself to get greedy and start poaching low level prospects from them because the AI doesnt value them correctly.

Turn the trading to Hard to make it a bit more realistic. I also tend to have them heavily favor prospects so they arent giving prospects away.

In general though the computer does a decent job. The biggest thing is if you get them to accept just make sure the trade makes sense for them to do and if you'd have reason to accept that trade if you were the computer.

For your specific example Id go from team to team and check their 1B depth. I am sure there is a 1st baseman on someones bench that is a good player. Or you may have to include a prospect to get a higher level 2nd baseman. Sounds like your 30 year old mid level pitcher may not have much value at this point.

[kuma78]

I use the shop a player as a way to see what teams are interested and then I explore from there.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

None of my ML-ready minor leaguers can play 1b worth a darn.

In addition to testing the trading market, I would reconsider this. Pretty much anybody in OOTP can play 1B with adequate results.

[The Wolf]

Go to Free Agents, Show All Players, and filter for 1B using a "Position = 1B" filter. Then rank the 1B's however you want and start going down the list, offering your P in trade. See if you can find a deal you like. If not, rerun your list only now hit the "Make This Trade Work Now" button. See if you can get a deal you like that way. If all else fails, convert a better on your team who can hit but does not field that well to 1B, and see if you can trade your P for an upgrade for the converted batter.

[The Wolf]

If that wasn't clear - you're not looking at free agents, but at all players.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by battists

Okay, so, I have just finished season two of my new fictional league. As I mentioned in a different thread, I like to start a team from the bottom and build them up, so in the inaugural draft I ended up with a pretty crappy major-league team, but the best minor-league system out there.

In year one, I finished in the cellar. In the first off-season, I scored a couple of stud free agents, and as a result I made it to the semifinals and won Manager of the Year.

As I head into year three, I am a little strapped financially, and I have a lot of good players who will still be in arbitration next year. I have 20 mil for FAs, but only 1 mil for extensions, probably due to all of the pending arbitration increases next year.

So I find myself wanting to fill a few holes on my major league squad, but I also need to try to keep my finances in order.

I have some stud players in AAA right now who are ready to come up. My ML roster has several adequate vets who I could move. So, I am thinking of delving into the trade market for the first time. Honestly, though, I have barely ever made trades in OOTP before!

I am curious though, how everyone approaches trading. I want to get a good deal, but I am not interested in "gaming the system." When I use the shop player around option, I pretty much never get anything back that I interested in.

For example, I need a 1B. I have an inadequate one on the roster now. Most of the first baseman in the free-agent market are either asking for 20 million per year, or they are not appreciably better than my current guy. None of my ML-ready minor leaguers can play 1b worth a darn.

I have a 30 year old starting pitcher, who put up decent numbers last season. Not a stud, but solid 3-star guy. Shop around gets me lots of offers, just nothing I want. He is signed for three more years at six mil per. I have a total stud in AAA waiting to fill his spot in the rotation. I would love to move the 30-year-old for an inexpensive but decent 1b and bring up the stud, thereby clearing some salary from the books in the process.

How would you guys approach something like this?

I don't think this should be too difficult since teams usually value starting pitching over 1b. Just look through all of the 1b in your league, and pick one with pretty good performance, a reasonable salary, and a player whom you scouting department agrees is a decent player. This is now the starting point for any negotiations.

[mpejkrm]

OOTP AI definitely favors starters over anything, as evidenced by the draft.

[battists]

Awesome, thanks guys! I have to admit, I try to field a solid defensive squad, so it would make me nervous to put some guy in there with a 5/100 rating...

[Nunyer]

I would agree with Mr.Scudworth... Any IF with decent arm/range/error ratings will do just fine at 1B. Over the years, I've moved many 3B prospects who were marginal defensively over to 1B and I would never say that they have burned me... Especially when many 1B are the big slugging / glove challenged types anyways.

As far as trading and not "gaming the system"... I don't want to say it's all common sense... but a lot of it is. As others have said... study the deal, study their roster and their needs and if you would pull the trigger from the other side of the table... then go for it. That said, I personally don't like putting trade difficulty to "high". You will grossly overpay for everything. While it surely makes things more challenging, it's punitive and unrealistic. At least with v14, I don't see the need for 'favor prospects' to protect the CPU... They value their youngsters quite well in my opinion with the default settings. You can't just pile on a bunch of 2-3 star marginal guys and land a blue chipper. I do think that setting helps them ask for prospects in return more often instead of always insisting on somebody from your ML roster.

One other thing that might be considered blasphemy.... but don't be afraid to occasionally use the "force trade" button or become commish and orchestrate CPU-to-CPU deals. If you believe the standard line... that the AI is not very bright... well, that goes both ways... and sometimes they simply will not know what is good for them. If you think your offer for that non-compensation pending free agent rental is more than fair, you are probably right. The AI does a good job at protecting their top prospects and their legit stars... but the AI doesn't do a very good job of actually moving players to create value. The AI doesn't seem to have any 'future plans' so to say... They don't do a good job clearing organizational log jams at a certain position and they don't do a good job turning expiring contracts into value. In the end, you can end up increasing the overall health of your league... because if you can 'game' against them... you can certainly 'game' for them.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Nunyer

One other thing that might be considered blasphemy.... but don't be afraid to occasionally use the "force trade" button or become commish and orchestrate CPU-to-CPU deals. If you believe the standard line... that the AI is not very bright... well, that goes both ways... and sometimes they simply will not know what is good for them. If you think your offer for that non-compensation pending free agent rental is more than fair, you are probably right. The AI does a good job at protecting their top prospects and their legit stars... but the AI doesn't do a very good job of actually moving players to create value. The AI doesn't seem to have any 'future plans' so to say... They don't do a good job clearing organizational log jams at a certain position and they don't do a good job turning expiring contracts into value. In the end, you can end up increasing the overall health of your league... because if you can 'game' against them... you can certainly 'game' for them.

Blasphemy. Should never be necessary to do this in any serious sports management game. Sorry.

[Nunyer]

Huh? I never said it was necessary to do any of those things. Read, comprehend, reply. I'll give you three guesses to figure out which step slipped you up....

[PSUColonel]

no, what I am saying is the AI should be capable enough without humans having to intervene


EDIT: otherwise it's just not there yet. Yes it may make some seemingly strange decisions, which in many cases prove to not be so strange due to fog of war etc...

But a truly competitive AI should not require "human policing"

[Nunyer]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

no, what I am saying is the AI should be capable enough without humans having to intervene


EDIT: otherwise it's just not there yet. Yes it may make some seemingly strange decisions, which in many cases prove to not be so strange due to fog of war etc...

But a truly competitive AI should not require "human policing"

Sorry... the correct answer was "comprehend". That was the step that slipped you up... and continues to slip you up. I never said there was a human policing "requirement"... You are reading words that aren't there.

The AI is capable enough... They field a team, stay within budget... sign players it makes sense to resign, let players go that deserve to be gone... don't easily have the wool pulled over their eyes in trade talks... I've never seen any baseball game with better trade / roster management AI. Still doesn't mean that the AI is more capable than I am.

[PSUColonel]

If I misinterpreted what you were saying I apologize.

What I was simply saying is even if a human doesn't think the trade is a good one (regardless of which side may be in or out of favor) then interfering is in fact (IMO) fooling, playing are ruining the integrity of the game...especially if scouting is being used.

[Nunyer]

That would certainly be possible... forcing the AI to take crap due to scouting inaccuracy... But as I said originally... you have to use common sense. If your scout says a prospect is great but after four years all his minor league stats stink and other teams aren't interested... then that is different then a situation where there is clearly no major 'fog of war' issues. Just like in real life, consensus gets developed on players... If multiple teams are interested in the same 1-2 prospects during your shopping around, then chances are they are legit, or at least most everybody thinks they are legit.

Also... there really is no "integrity of the game" as far as I am concerned. I guess you get a 'score' at the end of a season... but you never really 'win'... you never really reach 'the end'. It's a sandbox. Build it up however you'd like.

[PSUColonel]

I guess it's the golfer in me

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by battists

Awesome, thanks guys! I have to admit, I try to field a solid defensive squad, so it would make me nervous to put some guy in there with a 5/100 rating...

They get better.