Differing Opinions

PSUColonel · 08-22-2013, 03:21 AM

Have you ever seen managers or bench coaches disagree on depth/lineups/pitching? It seems to me they all just fall under the umbrella of the "AI", and that there really isn't much or any differing opinions amongst the different staff members found within OOTP. Has anybody else found this to be basically true? If so, this is not a very good thing IMO. I understand if this is the case with personnel disabled, but it seems as though (at least to me) that staff has absolutely zero effect on different lineup and starting strategies.

PSUColonel · 08-22-2013, 04:09 AM

I just tested this on every team within my organization, and there was not one differing opinion on depth or lineups between managers and bench coaches. The staff aspect of this game is just horrible. Something FM has seemingly gotten right. The coaches in FM seem to actually matter, and are an integral part of the game. The coaches there do have different opinions on starters ( not wildly different, but just more like a tweak here and there) and actually each coach has an opinion on each player. OOTP just seems have one way of looking at players...the way the overall AI does. Individual coaches don't seem to mater one bit in OOTP.

Fyrestorm3 · 08-22-2013, 04:52 AM

Agreed. The staff system needs a major overhaul. It shouldn't feel like a pointless chore to hire new coaches every off-season.

Mantush · 08-22-2013, 05:10 AM

I've never seen any disagreements between my manager and bench coach, neither have I seen a manager's strategy settings have any impact on my lineup either.

VanillaGorilla · 08-22-2013, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I just tested this on every team within my organization, and there was not one differing opinion on depth or lineups between managers and bench coaches. The staff aspect of this game is just horrible. Something FM has seemingly gotten right. The coaches in FM seem to actually matter, and are an integral part of the game. The coaches there do have different opinions on starters ( not wildly different, but just more like a tweak here and there) and actually each coach has an opinion on each player. OOTP just seems have one way of looking at players...the way the overall AI does. Individual coaches don't seem to mater one bit in OOTP.

I have never gone through all the teams in a league, as you have done. However, whenever I have checked my own team, I have never seen any difference in line-up or depth chart or rotation between clicking on 'ask manager' and 'ask bench coach'.

Hold your seat, brother....I think this may be a bug. The reason for having the choice between the two (mgr and bench coach) is because the programmer designed a difference to be there for the user to select.

If NO ONE has seen a difference, then this indicates that the mgr and bench coach options are using the same routine (the mgr selection is actually using the bench coach, or the bench coach is actually using the mgr).

I don't see the point of Markus intending to use a generic AI logic but taking the time to put in an option that is purely cosmetic in order to trick the user.

This smells buggy, to me.

ADD: I have never even seen a difference in the "start every X game" number for any sub when comparing mgr and BC, either.

SirMichaelJordan · 08-22-2013, 10:55 AM

Im not sure if the ask manager or bench coach have different opinions in 14 but I know for sure that managers have different opinions from each other. I fired my manager because I didn't like his lineups (and we were losing) for another manager who lineups turned out better.

In 13' bench coaches and managers did give me different lineups when I used the ask feature. Cant say Ive seen it in 14

The Wolf · 08-22-2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

Agreed. The staff system needs a major overhaul. It shouldn't feel like a pointless chore to hire new coaches every off-season.

^ This

Nunyer · 08-22-2013, 11:37 AM

I have typically turned coaching off... as it just appears to be another layer of free agency that doesn't seem to bring a whole bunch to the table either way.

That said, I have noticed in the past when I've had coaching enabled, that the bench coach and manager can have differing opinions in lineup / rotation decisions. So I think it did work at some point.

But yes, it would be nice to overhaul the system. I agree with the OP that it would be a positive to allow for AI assistant coaches to handle the player development modifiers, and then have the manager simply be the human player, with no AI or performance modifiers applied. Seeing that a lot of people like to wear both the GM and Manager hats, no need to have an AI based manager if you are making all the decisions anyways.

PSUColonel · 08-22-2013, 02:48 PM

how can we find out if this is a bug? If it is, is there time to correct it?

PSUColonel · 08-22-2013, 04:12 PM

On a separate, but not totally unrelated topic, I would really like to see the ability to "lock" players into positions. I realize this feature already exists on some level, but not for things such as pitching rotation slots, or defensive subs etc..

SirMichaelJordan · 08-22-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyer

I have typically turned coaching off... as it just appears to be another layer of free agency that doesn't seem to bring a whole bunch to the table either way.

That said, I have noticed in the past when I've had coaching enabled, that the bench coach and manager can have differing opinions in lineup / rotation decisions. So I think it did work at some point.

But yes, it would be nice to overhaul the system. I agree with the OP that it would be a positive to allow for AI assistant coaches to handle the player development modifiers, and then have the manager simply be the human player, with no AI or performance modifiers applied. Seeing that a lot of people like to wear both the GM and Manager hats, no need to have an AI based manager if you are making all the decisions anyways.

I have no desire to be the manager, GM is what I want to play as so taking that away would be a bad idea.

Nunyer · 08-22-2013, 04:48 PM

sorry if I wasn't clear... I don't mean to remove anything from the game, just to allow the option for the AI Manager to be completely turned off if you wish to play as a human manager but still have AI assistants.

Questdog · 08-22-2013, 05:17 PM

Never understood why the option was there in the first place to ask the bench coach......ain't his job.....

PSUColonel · 08-23-2013, 02:20 AM

The bigger question becomes, and I am now convinced this is likely a bug (if not, another poor design decision) that these are the things that just simply separate OOTP from FM. Why can't Markus get some of this stuff right? Don't tell me it's a staff issue. These are features he willfully puts in the game that many times are only half cooked. WHY? Start making sure each and every little feature works well and functionally instead of saying ... I will half design one feature and come up with two, only to declare the feature is "working as intended" I mean really, he does do it all the time.

BusterKing · 08-23-2013, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

The bigger question becomes, and I am now convinced this is likely a bug (if not, another poor design decision) that these are the things that just simply separate OOTP from FM. Why can't Markus get some of this stuff right? Don't tell me it's a staff issue. These are features he willfully puts in the game that many times are only half cooked. WHY? Start making sure each and every little feature works well and functionally instead of saying ... I will half design one feature and come up with two, only to declare the feature is "working as intended" I mean really, he does do it all the time.

oh man, are you ever in deep trouble now.... where's the popcorn

The Wolf · 08-23-2013, 10:08 AM

I'm so out of here.

JohnHoward · 08-23-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

oh man, are you ever in deep trouble now.... where's the popcorn

Yeah, this PSU crap gets posted with impunity, but Wolf gets called out by name. Not cool.

PSUColonel · 08-23-2013, 11:26 AM

I am making a legitimate point...why would I be in trouble?

Nunyer · 08-23-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Never understood why the option was there in the first place to ask the bench coach......ain't his job.....

If I'm the boss... and I ask the bench coach to give me the lineup he would use... then you better damn well believe it's his job.

PSUColonel · 08-23-2013, 02:23 PM

Anyway, has anybody else looked into this...it's a serious problem IMO

08-22-2013, 03:21 AM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	Differing Opinions Have you ever seen managers or bench coaches disagree on depth/lineups/pitching? It seems to me they all just fall under the umbrella of the "AI", and that there really isn't much or any differing opinions amongst the different staff members found within OOTP. Has anybody else found this to be basically true? If so, this is not a very good thing IMO. I understand if this is the case with personnel disabled, but it seems as though (at least to me) that staff has absolutely zero effect on different lineup and starting strategies.

08-22-2013, 04:09 AM	#2
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	I just tested this on every team within my organization, and there was not one differing opinion on depth or lineups between managers and bench coaches. The staff aspect of this game is just horrible. Something FM has seemingly gotten right. The coaches in FM seem to actually matter, and are an integral part of the game. The coaches there do have different opinions on starters ( not wildly different, but just more like a tweak here and there) and actually each coach has an opinion on each player. OOTP just seems have one way of looking at players...the way the overall AI does. Individual coaches don't seem to mater one bit in OOTP. Last edited by PSUColonel; 08-22-2013 at 04:53 AM.

08-22-2013, 10:55 AM	#6
SirMichaelJordan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 2,716	Differing Opinions Im not sure if the ask manager or bench coach have different opinions in 14 but I know for sure that managers have different opinions from each other. I fired my manager because I didn't like his lineups (and we were losing) for another manager who lineups turned out better. In 13' bench coaches and managers did give me different lineups when I used the ask feature. Cant say Ive seen it in 14

08-22-2013, 04:52 AM	#3
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	Agreed. The staff system needs a major overhaul. It shouldn't feel like a pointless chore to hire new coaches every off-season.

08-22-2013, 05:10 AM	#4
Mantush Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 147	I've never seen any disagreements between my manager and bench coach, neither have I seen a manager's strategy settings have any impact on my lineup either.

08-22-2013, 11:37 AM	#8
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	I have typically turned coaching off... as it just appears to be another layer of free agency that doesn't seem to bring a whole bunch to the table either way. That said, I have noticed in the past when I've had coaching enabled, that the bench coach and manager can have differing opinions in lineup / rotation decisions. So I think it did work at some point. But yes, it would be nice to overhaul the system. I agree with the OP that it would be a positive to allow for AI assistant coaches to handle the player development modifiers, and then have the manager simply be the human player, with no AI or performance modifiers applied. Seeing that a lot of people like to wear both the GM and Manager hats, no need to have an AI based manager if you are making all the decisions anyways.

08-22-2013, 02:48 PM	#9
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	how can we find out if this is a bug? If it is, is there time to correct it?

08-22-2013, 04:12 PM	#10
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	On a separate, but not totally unrelated topic, I would really like to see the ability to "lock" players into positions. I realize this feature already exists on some level, but not for things such as pitching rotation slots, or defensive subs etc..

08-22-2013, 04:48 PM	#12
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	sorry if I wasn't clear... I don't mean to remove anything from the game, just to allow the option for the AI Manager to be completely turned off if you wish to play as a human manager but still have AI assistants.

08-22-2013, 05:17 PM	#13
Questdog Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: In a dark, damp cave where I'm training slugs to run the bases...... Posts: 16,142	Never understood why the option was there in the first place to ask the bench coach......ain't his job.....

08-23-2013, 02:20 AM	#14
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	The bigger question becomes, and I am now convinced this is likely a bug (if not, another poor design decision) that these are the things that just simply separate OOTP from FM. Why can't Markus get some of this stuff right? Don't tell me it's a staff issue. These are features he willfully puts in the game that many times are only half cooked. WHY? Start making sure each and every little feature works well and functionally instead of saying ... I will half design one feature and come up with two, only to declare the feature is "working as intended" I mean really, he does do it all the time.

08-23-2013, 11:26 AM	#18
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	I am making a legitimate point...why would I be in trouble?

08-23-2013, 02:23 PM	#20
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	Anyway, has anybody else looked into this...it's a serious problem IMO