Need option year clarification

spleen1015 · 08-20-2013, 10:28 AM

My fellow OOTPers, I need some help!

When the AI is going through contract evaluations, how does it look at team option years?

Here is what I mean by that.

If I offer a player 4 years at $6 million and have a 5th year team option of $24 million, how does the AI look at that 5th year? If I add a buyout of $4 million to the 5th year, how does the AI look at it?

I'm trying to figure out how much impact a HUGE team option year would have in the AI decision. I hope and believe very little, but I wanted to ask you smart people.

Fyrestorm3 · 08-20-2013, 12:57 PM

It's actually an exploit of the game. Offer a guy a three-year deal worth $2M a year, with a 4th year team option at $30M with a $0 buyout, and the AI will view it as a 4-year, $36M contract. And then, of course, you simply don't execute the option year, and you've received a decent player for a ridiculously small contract.

A lot of online leagues have house rules to protect against exactly this. Contract evaluation is one area of the AI that really, really needs work.

The Game · 08-20-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

It's actually an exploit of the game. Offer a guy a three-year deal worth $2M a year, with a 4th year team option at $30M with a $0 buyout, and the AI will view it as a 4-year, $36M contract. And then, of course, you simply don't execute the option year, and you've received a decent player for a ridiculously small contract.

A lot of online leagues have house rules to protect against exactly this. Contract evaluation is one area of the AI that really, really needs work.

Never tried this myself. Good thing to add to my house rules of things not to do.

Matt Arnold · 08-20-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm3

It's actually an exploit of the game. Offer a guy a three-year deal worth $2M a year, with a 4th year team option at $30M with a $0 buyout, and the AI will view it as a 4-year, $36M contract. And then, of course, you simply don't execute the option year, and you've received a decent player for a ridiculously small contract.

A lot of online leagues have house rules to protect against exactly this. Contract evaluation is one area of the AI that really, really needs work.

I don't think it's quite that simple. I know for sure I've offered a player a contract with a team option or 2 tacked on to the end, and his reply to me was the exact same offer, except with a player option instead. I didn't go with insane player or team options, but they still value them differently.

Of course, if you do that, then the AI will lock out that 30M option from your future budget, so it might prevent you from trading for a player or resigning a player to an extension.

Nunyer · 08-20-2013, 01:34 PM

I also never thought to do that either... a large backloaded team option year... Which kind of surprises me... while I usually have pretty good self control about exploiting the AI, I do like finding out exactly how far they can be pushed.

About as far as I've weaseled is to front load a contract on occasion... There was a 36 year old fragile reliever that was insisting on three years... and I wanted nothing to do with that. Finally, I gave him his three years but with $7m in year one and $2m in each of the next two. Figured if I had to cut him outright down the road most of the money was spent in the first year... and if I decided to try to trade him the $2m figure would look better to the AI. In the end, he actually gave me two solid years bouncing between middle relief and setup man and then retired prior to year three.

cavebutter · 08-20-2013, 01:44 PM

I have had my owner refuse to approve a contract that was ridiculously back-loaded like that. I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of not approving a contract that had such a big difference between year 3 and year 4. I had set that up as a team option, but the owner didn't reference that.

Fyrestorm3 · 08-20-2013, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavebutter

I have had my owner refuse to approve a contract that was ridiculously back-loaded like that. I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of not approving a contract that had such a big difference between year 3 and year 4. I had set that up as a team option, but the owner didn't reference that.

That's good to know. It might have been changed in OOTP14 or one of the patches, because I know that it was an issue in previous years. I just hadn't heard anything about a fix, so I assumed it hadn't been touched.

kingcharlesxii · 08-20-2013, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavebutter

I have had my owner refuse to approve a contract that was ridiculously back-loaded like that. I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of not approving a contract that had such a big difference between year 3 and year 4. I had set that up as a team option, but the owner didn't reference that.

I've seen that in previous versions of OOTP but I don't think I've seen that in 14 so far.

cavebutter · 08-20-2013, 03:59 PM

This was in 14.

kingcharlesxii · 08-20-2013, 04:20 PM

Interesting, maybe I haven't pushed it enough in the contracts I've offered in my leagues. I'll try to trigger it when I get home tonight and figure out what that threshold is.

PSUColonel · 08-20-2013, 04:38 PM

If this does prove to be an issue, perhaps Markus can take care of this quicky before starting OOTP 15...I think it could potentially be a big problem.

ThePretender · 08-20-2013, 06:11 PM

This has been done for quite some time now. Same thing with buyouts - you can have a $0 buyout and make the final year twice the value.

RchW · 08-20-2013, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

If this does prove to be an issue, perhaps Markus can take care of this quicky before starting OOTP 15...I think it could potentially be a big problem.

It's not a problem unless one exploits it.

kingcharlesxii · 08-20-2013, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingcharlesxii

Interesting, maybe I haven't pushed it enough in the contracts I've offered in my leagues. I'll try to trigger it when I get home tonight and figure out what that threshold is.

Hmm weird, I couldn't trigger it. I offered on both an extension and on a free agent contracts that alternated $50 million and $1 million years. The owner didn't complain.

08-20-2013, 10:28 AM	#1
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 6,008	Need option year clarification My fellow OOTPers, I need some help! When the AI is going through contract evaluations, how does it look at team option years? Here is what I mean by that. If I offer a player 4 years at $6 million and have a 5th year team option of $24 million, how does the AI look at that 5th year? If I add a buyout of $4 million to the 5th year, how does the AI look at it? I'm trying to figure out how much impact a HUGE team option year would have in the AI decision. I hope and believe very little, but I wanted to ask you smart people.

08-20-2013, 01:44 PM	#6
cavebutter All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,163	I have had my owner refuse to approve a contract that was ridiculously back-loaded like that. I forget the exact words, but it was something to the effect of not approving a contract that had such a big difference between year 3 and year 4. I had set that up as a team option, but the owner didn't reference that. __________________ MySQL, MyStruggle - A self-indulgent blog about my attempts to roll my own MySQL Database with OOTP Logo Gallery

08-20-2013, 03:59 PM	#9
cavebutter All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,163	Need option year clarification This was in 14. __________________ MySQL, MyStruggle - A self-indulgent blog about my attempts to roll my own MySQL Database with OOTP Logo Gallery

08-20-2013, 12:57 PM	#2
Fyrestorm3 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Tampa Bay, Massachusetts Posts: 2,928	It's actually an exploit of the game. Offer a guy a three-year deal worth $2M a year, with a 4th year team option at $30M with a $0 buyout, and the AI will view it as a 4-year, $36M contract. And then, of course, you simply don't execute the option year, and you've received a decent player for a ridiculously small contract. A lot of online leagues have house rules to protect against exactly this. Contract evaluation is one area of the AI that really, really needs work.

08-20-2013, 01:34 PM	#5
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	I also never thought to do that either... a large backloaded team option year... Which kind of surprises me... while I usually have pretty good self control about exploiting the AI, I do like finding out exactly how far they can be pushed. About as far as I've weaseled is to front load a contract on occasion... There was a 36 year old fragile reliever that was insisting on three years... and I wanted nothing to do with that. Finally, I gave him his three years but with $7m in year one and $2m in each of the next two. Figured if I had to cut him outright down the road most of the money was spent in the first year... and if I decided to try to trade him the $2m figure would look better to the AI. In the end, he actually gave me two solid years bouncing between middle relief and setup man and then retired prior to year three.

08-20-2013, 04:20 PM	#10
kingcharlesxii Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 2,731	Interesting, maybe I haven't pushed it enough in the contracts I've offered in my leagues. I'll try to trigger it when I get home tonight and figure out what that threshold is.

08-20-2013, 04:38 PM	#11
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,139	If this does prove to be an issue, perhaps Markus can take care of this quicky before starting OOTP 15...I think it could potentially be a big problem.

08-20-2013, 06:11 PM	#12
ThePretender All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,331	This has been done for quite some time now. Same thing with buyouts - you can have a $0 buyout and make the final year twice the value.