Turn off career ending injuries?

[muz]

I find career ending injuries to be highly unrealistic. First, they really don't happen much any more. It's very rare that a guy fails to come back in some capacity after an injury. Second, it doesn't happen just randomly -- that it's suddenly announced one day that his broken ankle has crippled him for life and his career is kaput.

I'd like an option to turn that off. I consider this a small tweak.

BTW, can anyone think of a recent real-life example of an OOTP-style career ending injury? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Nick Esasky's vertigo with the Braves.

[VanillaGorilla]

Nick Adenhart

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

Nick Adenhart

If you're going down that route, then Cory Lidle as well.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

If you're going down that route, then Cory Lidle as well.

Was the first one to pop to mind.

I think the CEI's in the game construct are fine, given the financial involved. Sure, you could have fewer insta-dones (like Lidle and Adenhart) and have guys tagged with potential CEIs and linger and try to come back, or not retire because they want their check (Albert Belle), but that messes up the game.

If you have the lingering "wait and see" be the overwhelming norm but, in the end, still have the same rate of CEI's, I think this messes with teams too much.

IRL, teams take out insurance on big salaried long term signees so they aren't stuck with their salaries if they go down, for good. For OOTP, you can have signed a guy to a $100M extension and he blows out his arm the next day, he retires from the CEI and your money is free to get replacement talent.

The OP is right on the point that the CEIs that occur in OOTP that are not "injury setbacks" do happen more than IRL. I know the team has attempted to model the actual rate of injuries and have very conscientious and meticulous people contributing to the research. The end result is the same if you go from having 90% of all CEIs be insta-byebyes to only 1 % (what the actual rate of CEIs from setbacks vs instant is, I don't know).

Within the construct of the game, I think the CEIs are handled fine.

I also offer that unless you are playing with injuries set on "very high" they are not occurring more often than IRL.

ADD: I also find the injury descriptions to be a narrative after the fact and should only be taken as color to the code. No player in 1920 missed 12 months due to Tommy John surgery. He was just done. Why I don't see posts complaining about having the ace of a poster's team go down for TJS for 12 months and come back the next season while playing in an era before Tommy John was even born is something I haven't completely figured out.

It's not that the player in 1920 is actually missing time due to TJS, he is simply missing 12 months. And it's not that a player is retiring because of a broken ankle because the news report says so. He is retiring because the injury, wherever and whatever it is, is ending his career, for whatever reason.

[Bluenoser]

I agree with the OP. I can't think of a real life equivalent where the same day or next day they are able to determine that your career is over.

I don't have a problem with rate of occurrence, just with how quick the diagnosis is determined. All CEI's should be tagged as 12 - 18 month, and then at some point during that time, after a few months, not hours, it is determined that the injury is in fact a career ender.

[RchW]

I've had 2 or 3 long term injuries have setbacks that resulted in CEI's. That is realistic to me. The instant CEI is a construct I assume that Markus needs within the program.

With so many game play and other key areas still needing work, this one doesn't bother me much. YMMV.

Edit

What VG says. Should have read it better.

[muz]

I'm not against the way CEIs are handled in the game. Markus et al know more about it than I do. And that's a good point about insurance, which teams have in real life but isn't modeled in the game.

I just wish I could turn CEIs off. After all, I can get rid of all injuries.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by muz

I just wish I could turn CEIs off.

No argument with that, from me. Even though I would not use the option.

Mo options, mo better.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I agree with the OP. I can't think of a real life equivalent where the same day or next day they are able to determine that your career is over.

I don't have a problem with rate of occurrence, just with how quick the diagnosis is determined. All CEI's should be tagged as 12 - 18 month, and then at some point during that time, after a few months, not hours, it is determined that the injury is in fact a career ender.

That makes sense I guess. There are one or two cases where I can realistically see a CEI being near instant (I had a guy in my game get a fractured skull (I assume via a HBP since he was a 1B) and retire straight away, I think that's reasonably plausible as long as it doesn't happen every time (and I don't think it does)).

With the setbacks, certain things should be more likely to result in CEIs (obviously elbow / knee ligament injuries, head injuries, etc), but most things have the potential to be (a finger tendon problem could be career ending for a pitcher, for example).

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by muz

I find career ending injuries to be highly unrealistic. First, they really don't happen much any more. It's very rare that a guy fails to come back in some capacity after an injury. Second, it doesn't happen just randomly -- that it's suddenly announced one day that his broken ankle has crippled him for life and his career is kaput.

I'd like an option to turn that off. I consider this a small tweak.

BTW, can anyone think of a recent real-life example of an OOTP-style career ending injury? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Nick Esasky's vertigo with the Braves.

Juan Encarnacion is one that comes to mind.

[RchW]

Mike Matheny's career was over May 31, 2006. There might have been a delay in an official announcement but everyone knew.

[D-BacksJosh]

Originally Posted by muz

BTW, can anyone think of a recent real-life example of an OOTP-style career ending injury? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Nick Esasky's vertigo with the Braves.

Adam Greenberg, probably not OOTP-style though since there was more to his story then just a CEI and he's done.

Maybe the CEI's could be re-programmed to allow some comebacks also. Something like a Dave Dravecky scenario without the tragic end.

[muz]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Juan Encarnacion is one that comes to mind.

Oh yeah, I forgot about him. Matheny would qualify as well.

[Bluenoser]

Ya I agree, there is the odd case that comes along where you pretty much know right away it's over. Still, even if the announcement came a week or two later rather than the instant the injury happens. This could give the impression that maybe the guy wanted a second opinion or something before he decided to hang em up for good.

[shawa666]

I think you could have injuries that severely reduce a player's abilities happen more often and have CEI setback's frequency reduced.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by shawa666

I think you could have injuries that severely reduce a player's abilities happen more often and have CEI setback's frequency reduced.

As long as it doesn't result in huge talent hits for things like a sprained wrist then fine (A broken wrist, maybe).

[Orcin]

I think the option to turn off CEI would be nice, particularly for historical leagues. Sometimes, I just want to have fun, and I don't want a big star to be removed from the league before his time.

[shawa666]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

As long as it doesn't result in huge talent hits for things like a sprained wrist then fine (A broken wrist, maybe).

Sprain wrist, get the yips.

Nah seriously. I'd see that for long injuries more than a 3 day stubbed toe.

[stevem810]

I support this request, too.

[mrking81012]

Whether you think CEIs are handled correctly or not, there's really no reason not to make it an option. There's options for countless other things..might as well be one here too