Challenge System Probably Incoming for MLB...quick questions

Mecza · 08-15-2013, 04:08 PM

Expanded Replay Probably Coming, Probably Flawed | FanGraphs Baseball

Essentially, owners will soon vote whether a challenge system (similar to American Football) should be implemented in MLB. This will probably pass in some way, shape, or form. Rumor has it this could happen by next year.

So question...Is this something that would make sense within the framework of the game as we know it? That one of the options as an acting manager would be to overturn calls. I wouldn't know how this would be implemented, but it would be interesting to hear thoughts whether it could work and whether this has been thought about.

Bluenoser · 08-15-2013, 04:33 PM

I sure hope not.

D-BacksJosh · 08-15-2013, 04:40 PM

No thanks. Leave baseball alone people, it doesn't need expanded replays and doesn't need replays. This is just what it needs, however, to interrupt game flow and increase game times even more.

metsguy234 · 08-15-2013, 04:48 PM

I'm on the fence about the real-life version of this, but I can't think of a way it could be incorporated into OOTP without seeming clunky. The game doesn't include umpires, first off. Secondly, we have no visual evidence of the plays, obviously, so we have to rely on the play-by-play text. This would make challenging a play in OOTP essentially a total crapshoot and not really worth adding IMO.

nebradska · 08-15-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

I'm on the fence about the real-life version of this, but I can't think of a way it could be incorporated into OOTP without seeming clunky. The game doesn't include umpires, first off. Secondly, we have no visual evidence of the plays, obviously, so we have to rely on the play-by-play text. This would make challenging a play in OOTP essentially a total crapshoot and not really worth adding IMO.

Exactly. A game is a game. When the NFL console games started putting in the challenge system some years back, it was just irksome to watch the computer blatantly blow a call once a game just so I could go into my pause screen and challenge the play.

Nunyer · 08-15-2013, 06:19 PM

If they do it the right way in MLB... then IRL I am all for it. If they use the NHL system where the league office has guys watching every game... they can quickly and efficiently review the replay and send the decision. Game umps don't have to run into the tunnel or anything silly like that... I think it could work and would not take much more time than two plate appearances worth of battling glove adjustments from the hitters. Again if implemented correctly, I can't imagine it would add more than a 5-10 mins to the average game length... assuming some games have 5 challenges but many would have none at all.

As far OOTP... I don't see how it could be implemented beyond "well, that coin flip worked in my favor and the call stands!!" versus "stupid coin flip just took away my home run!!!" So yea, it would be lame in game I think.

dkgo · 08-15-2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

No thanks. Leave baseball alone people, it doesn't need expanded replays and doesn't need replays. This is just what it needs, however, to interrupt game flow and increase game times even more.

incredibly silly thinking that people always seems to go back on once a call is blown against their team

r0nster · 08-15-2013, 08:02 PM

have always been against the replay system in Baseball from the very first moment they began openly thinking of it. I been against their idea of the All-star game idea .... I thought if they wanted to make the all-star game mean anything make it that the winner gets to have their league have the next seasons game as well. Gotta keep the game fun. I would love to have a voting on the starting pitcher (real life)

D-BacksJosh · 08-15-2013, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

incredibly silly thinking that people always seems to go back on once a call is blown against their team

Your right, and blown calls are part of the game

Honorable_Pawn · 08-15-2013, 08:19 PM

IRL--100% support

OOTP--100% against

metsguy234 · 08-15-2013, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-BacksJosh

Your right, and blown calls are part of the game

I think it's fundamentally wrong that something other than what happens on the field has the potential to determine the result of a game. No one comes to a game to watch the umpires.

D-BacksJosh · 08-15-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsguy234

I think it's fundamentally wrong that something other than what happens on the field has the potential to determine the result of a game. No one comes to a game to watch the umpires.

Baseball was fundamentally created with umpires and no replay. Doesn't really matter, its going to happen anyway. I realize I am in the minority.

Nunyer · 08-15-2013, 08:54 PM

Roughly two decades of professional baseball was played before it was the norm for fielders to wear gloves. Things change over time from their original incarnation and it isn't always a bad thing.

In the big picture, I think it's going to be much ado about nothing. Most really close plays will happen in predictable locations, such as at the bases... and will only involve two players. We're not going to see situations like the NFL where certain replays take forever because there are a dozen huge dudes piled around one football and you need six camera angles to find a vantage point that still doesn't give a truly conclusive view. If MLB royally jacks up the implementation and processing of the challenges... then I might reconsider... but for now, I don't get why it took so long. If you can get the call right with a momentary interruption, why wouldn't you?

D-BacksJosh · 08-15-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nunyer

Roughly two decades of professional baseball was played before it was the norm for fielders to wear gloves. Things change over time from their original incarnation and it isn't always a bad thing.

Valid point.

Bluenoser · 08-15-2013, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dkgo

incredibly silly thinking that people always seems to go back on once a call is blown against their team

Incredibly silly thinking by people who seem to believe that replay technology is the be all to end all.

I've been following professional sports for over 50 years and love the fact that blown calls get made against my fav teams as well as others. Would gladly keep the "human" element in the game any day of the week over putting up with foolishness like instant replay.

Nunyer · 08-15-2013, 10:02 PM

I don't think technology is the be all end all for anything... That is far from the point.

When you factor in all the calls the umpires make... including balls and strikes... you are probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 calls per game. Technology is looking to review a maximum of 10 of those per game. So... the absolute worst case scenario is replay removing maybe 2-4% of the human element.

Once again... much ado about nothing. The robots aren't taking over. The humans aren't being turned into soylent green. You are still free to 'love the fact that blown calls get made' up until the point that they are overturned.

bailey · 08-15-2013, 10:16 PM

If they expand instant replay then I hope they abolish arguing with the umpire. Nothing is more boring then to watch a manager lose his temper and get tossed, and then take 2 more minutes of more arguing before leaving the field. Arguing should be 3 day suspension on the first offense and go up from there.

dkgo · 08-15-2013, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Incredibly silly thinking by people who seem to believe that replay technology is the be all to end all.

I've been following professional sports for over 50 years and love the fact that blown calls get made against my fav teams as well as others. Would gladly keep the "human" element in the game any day of the week over putting up with foolishness like instant replay.

You might be the only person who loves blown calls and enjoys having games decided by one man's guess at what happened instead of, you know, what actually happens during the game.

Although many people like you also called things like email and cell phones foolishness when they came out.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 08-15-2013, 11:21 PM

An NHL-style review initiated by the "war room" would be fine. But I don't like the challenge system.

JMDurron · 08-15-2013, 11:35 PM

What I'd like to see one day is a Heads-Up Display that the home plate umpire could use in a helmet/goggles setup to put an overlay of the real strike zone into his vision. No challenges by the managers, no reviews from the league office, just helping the humans on the field do a better job of calling balls and strikes, which are by far the most influential "blown calls" in the game of baseball.

If this challenge system is implemented in OOTP, I am going to break things. And possibly people. But mostly just things. I like the fact that some of the human stupidity is not a part of this particular simulation of baseball, manually injecting error that is an unfortunate byproduct of the real thing would ruin a part of the user experience for me.

08-15-2013, 04:08 PM	#1
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	Challenge System Probably Incoming for MLB...quick questions Expanded Replay Probably Coming, Probably Flawed \| FanGraphs Baseball Essentially, owners will soon vote whether a challenge system (similar to American Football) should be implemented in MLB. This will probably pass in some way, shape, or form. Rumor has it this could happen by next year. So question...Is this something that would make sense within the framework of the game as we know it? That one of the options as an acting manager would be to overturn calls. I wouldn't know how this would be implemented, but it would be interesting to hear thoughts whether it could work and whether this has been thought about.

08-15-2013, 04:40 PM	#3
D-BacksJosh Banned Join Date: May 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 875	No thanks. Leave baseball alone people, it doesn't need expanded replays and doesn't need replays. This is just what it needs, however, to interrupt game flow and increase game times even more. Last edited by D-BacksJosh; 08-15-2013 at 04:42 PM.

08-15-2013, 08:19 PM	#10
Honorable_Pawn Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Tampa Bay Posts: 6,407	IRL--100% support OOTP--100% against __________________ PBA Quickstart for OOTP Background Images Collection All PBA games broadcast live on Steam.

08-15-2013, 11:21 PM	#19
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,118	An NHL-style review initiated by the "war room" would be fine. But I don't like the challenge system. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason Last edited by Cinnamon J. Scudworth; 08-16-2013 at 08:54 AM.

08-15-2013, 04:33 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,505	I sure hope not.

08-15-2013, 04:48 PM	#4
metsguy234 Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Washington, D.C. Posts: 298	I'm on the fence about the real-life version of this, but I can't think of a way it could be incorporated into OOTP without seeming clunky. The game doesn't include umpires, first off. Secondly, we have no visual evidence of the plays, obviously, so we have to rely on the play-by-play text. This would make challenging a play in OOTP essentially a total crapshoot and not really worth adding IMO.

08-15-2013, 06:19 PM	#6
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	If they do it the right way in MLB... then IRL I am all for it. If they use the NHL system where the league office has guys watching every game... they can quickly and efficiently review the replay and send the decision. Game umps don't have to run into the tunnel or anything silly like that... I think it could work and would not take much more time than two plate appearances worth of battling glove adjustments from the hitters. Again if implemented correctly, I can't imagine it would add more than a 5-10 mins to the average game length... assuming some games have 5 challenges but many would have none at all. As far OOTP... I don't see how it could be implemented beyond "well, that coin flip worked in my favor and the call stands!!" versus "stupid coin flip just took away my home run!!!" So yea, it would be lame in game I think.

08-15-2013, 08:02 PM	#8
r0nster Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Michigan Posts: 3,082	have always been against the replay system in Baseball from the very first moment they began openly thinking of it. I been against their idea of the All-star game idea .... I thought if they wanted to make the all-star game mean anything make it that the winner gets to have their league have the next seasons game as well. Gotta keep the game fun. I would love to have a voting on the starting pitcher (real life)

08-15-2013, 08:54 PM	#13
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	Roughly two decades of professional baseball was played before it was the norm for fielders to wear gloves. Things change over time from their original incarnation and it isn't always a bad thing. In the big picture, I think it's going to be much ado about nothing. Most really close plays will happen in predictable locations, such as at the bases... and will only involve two players. We're not going to see situations like the NFL where certain replays take forever because there are a dozen huge dudes piled around one football and you need six camera angles to find a vantage point that still doesn't give a truly conclusive view. If MLB royally jacks up the implementation and processing of the challenges... then I might reconsider... but for now, I don't get why it took so long. If you can get the call right with a momentary interruption, why wouldn't you?

08-15-2013, 10:02 PM	#16
Nunyer All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baseball Ned Flanders stares into your soul... Posts: 594	I don't think technology is the be all end all for anything... That is far from the point. When you factor in all the calls the umpires make... including balls and strikes... you are probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 350 calls per game. Technology is looking to review a maximum of 10 of those per game. So... the absolute worst case scenario is replay removing maybe 2-4% of the human element. Once again... much ado about nothing. The robots aren't taking over. The humans aren't being turned into soylent green. You are still free to 'love the fact that blown calls get made' up until the point that they are overturned.

08-15-2013, 10:16 PM	#17
bailey Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 3,424	If they expand instant replay then I hope they abolish arguing with the umpire. Nothing is more boring then to watch a manager lose his temper and get tossed, and then take 2 more minutes of more arguing before leaving the field. Arguing should be 3 day suspension on the first offense and go up from there.

08-15-2013, 11:35 PM	#20
JMDurron All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,260	What I'd like to see one day is a Heads-Up Display that the home plate umpire could use in a helmet/goggles setup to put an overlay of the real strike zone into his vision. No challenges by the managers, no reviews from the league office, just helping the humans on the field do a better job of calling balls and strikes, which are by far the most influential "blown calls" in the game of baseball. If this challenge system is implemented in OOTP, I am going to break things. And possibly people. But mostly just things. I like the fact that some of the human stupidity is not a part of this particular simulation of baseball, manually injecting error that is an unfortunate byproduct of the real thing would ruin a part of the user experience for me.