Strasburg excitement running out

[Postman]

Originally Posted by wireman

When I was a kid, wins was THE stat for a pitcher. But I've come to believe that it's a worthless evaluator.

For me growing up it was ERA and still is, although I've started to pay more attention to WHIP for relievers.

[Goody]

I like WHIP, ERA, and GS/QS for starters. For relievers WHIP and Inherited Runners Scored %.

[Mikex5]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I don't think there is any question about Strasburg's talent. The question is can he stay healthy enought to be a healthy starting pitcher?

I remember an era where starting pitchers didn't seem to be injured all of the time? Halladay seems to be a rare exception to the rule that today's pitchers just can't throw many pitches. Strasburg was coddled and his regiment was strictly controlled and he still ripped up his arm. I know guys throw harder on average today than at any time in history. But Nolan Ryan says guys don't pace themselves. Plus, IMHO, the slider and splitter seem to stress the arm more. If you throw a slider wrong, your elbow is toast.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

I remember an era where starting pitchers didn't seem to be injured all of the time? Halladay seems to be a rare exception to the rule that today's pitchers just can't throw many pitches. Strasburg was coddled and his regiment was strictly controlled and he still ripped up his arm. I know guys throw harder on average today than at any time in history. But Nolan Ryan says guys don't pace themselves. Plus, IMHO, the slider and splitter seem to stress the arm more. If you throw a slider wrong, your elbow is toast.

Coddled? Before the Tommy John?

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

I remember an era where starting pitchers didn't seem to be injured all of the time? Halladay seems to be a rare exception to the rule that today's pitchers just can't throw many pitches. Strasburg was coddled and his regiment was strictly controlled and he still ripped up his arm. I know guys throw harder on average today than at any time in history. But Nolan Ryan says guys don't pace themselves. Plus, IMHO, the slider and splitter seem to stress the arm more. If you throw a slider wrong, your elbow is toast.

I think pitchers have always been injured. There are plenty of guys who blew out their arm through out history. We just never remember the one's fizzled out. And because they often accomplish little we have little desire to remember them. With the internet we are much more knowledgeable about upcoming prospects and players, not to mention league wide players. Young prospects are so hyped that we know them before they even throw a pitch. That anticipation leads to the infamy of their shortened careers. Before if a guy came up and blows out his arm, you likely didn't know him from Adam.

A couple of guys come to mind when thinking about injury shortened(or ruined) careers. Herb Score (50s), Mark Fidrych (70s), J.R. Richard (70s), Sandy Koufax (60s), Jim Bouton (60s) Steve Stone (70s)

[canadiancreed]

Weren't some of those careers ended by non-pitching related injuries? I recall Score getting beaned and never recovering, while J. R. Richards having a heart attack.

[wireman]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Weren't some of those careers ended by non-pitching related injuries? I recall Score getting beaned and never recovering, while J. R. Richards having a heart attack.

I think Richard had a stroke but, yeah.

Way back in the day, tons of pitchers got injuries -- that we now understand and have surgery for -- who were simply deemed "sore-armed pitchers."
They no longer pitched at a major league level and wound up tending bar somewhere or selling insurance.

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

Weren't some of those careers ended by non-pitching related injuries? I recall Score getting beaned and never recovering, while J. R. Richards having a heart attack.

Score got hit by a comebacker. He changed his mechanics and tore up his arm. So the beaning did contribute yes. Richards did have a stroke so that's probably a poor example.

[Skipaway]

I think many players that appeared to be injured every other year these days would have been out of the league after the first injury in the past. The medical procedures weren't there, and money at stake was way less.

So it's harder to be oft-injured in the past.

[Rasmuth]

Plenty of pitchers had career ending injuries in the older days...Steve Busby one that stands out for me....2 no-hitters in his short career and he had dominant type stuff...blew out his arm around 1975 and it was over.....

but that being said...plenty of guys threw 250+ innings a year....every year and never seemed to be hurt.

with pitchers...it's a crapshoot....in some ways I feel that perhaps pitchers today don't throw enough to keep their arms strong...but who knows.

Sometimes you can almost predict who might be injury prone, depending on mechanics and such (ie...Strasburg....Mark Prior...etc), but sometimes you just don't see it coming.

[Goody]

And Koufax was arthritis.

[Goody]

Originally Posted by Mikex5

Halladay seems to be a rare exception to the rule that today's pitchers just can't throw many pitches.

This statement made me curious about studying some of the better SP's durability closer.

I started checking total pitches thrown since 2009. This is I think a better stat for durability than IP as different style pitchers use more or less pitches per Plate Appearance. IP measures durability, but also efficiency.

I also wanted to check guys with various body shapes and delivery styles. Also I chose more AL guys as with them... subbing out for offense is removed.

Pitches since beginning of 2009 season.

David Price 13715

Jared Weaver 14694

Justin Verlander 17440

CC Sabathia 15796

Felix Hernandez 16366

Roy Halladay 13440

Tim Lincecum 15568

[wireman]

Strasburg was inexplicably awful last night. Staked to a 3-0 lead before he threw a pitch, he proceeded to look as bad as I've ever seen anybody until getting yanked after two innings with the score 7-3.

Go figure. Most games he never even gets three runs worth of support. Can't stand prosperity?

His lack of command was obvious right away: After two pitches, I was saying, "uh-oh." He pitched behind in the count pretty much the whole way, thew 66 pitches in two innings.

His once-splendid ERA (it was 2.24 a couple of starts ago) stands at 2.99.

[Mikex5]

Originally Posted by Goody

This statement made me curious about studying some of the better SP's durability closer.

I started checking total pitches thrown since 2009. This is I think a better stat for durability than IP as different style pitchers use more or less pitches per Plate Appearance. IP measures durability, but also efficiency.

I also wanted to check guys with various body shapes and delivery styles. Also I chose more AL guys as with them... subbing out for offense is removed.

Pitches since beginning of 2009 season.

David Price 13715

Jared Weaver 14694

Justin Verlander 17440

CC Sabathia 15796

Felix Hernandez 16366

Roy Halladay 13440

Tim Lincecum 15568

Interesting. Lincecum kind of surprised me because he was in the bullpen some last year. Maybe that was just the playoffs.

[abailey3313]

Needed only 97 pitches to throw his first complete game and first shutout yesterday. Struck out 10, walked one, and gave up four hits.

[MorseMoose]

Turn your attention to Andrew Albers; 8 1/3 in his debut, 9 shutout in his second start. The guy has been, in general, awesome to watch.

[*Glass Shattering*]

General Awesome to Watch