Game too hard, frustrating.

[cpmackenzi]

Gotta say that pitching staffs in this game are frustrating beyond belief. I stopped playing OOTP 13 because I could NEVER put together a consistently good pitching staff. I didn't buy OOTP 14 until they discounted to half off, and I'm glad I waited because that problem has continued for me in OOTP 14. I would trade for players with no less than 4 stars. Had a rotation full of real-life studs who were all 4.5 stars or higher, plus a bullpen with no one lower than 3 stars. My team sucks horribly, I got a season score of 1/100, and only one starter has an ERA below 4.00.

What's more, a 2-star prospect I traded to get a stud SP turns out to win the ROY by hitting .296 with 32 HR -- yet he's still currently 1 star with 2 star potential in my and OSA's scouting. And as often happens in baseball sim games (Baseball Mogul, too), any pitchers I trade away flourish, whereas any top pitchers I acquire immediately stink when they join my team.

I am sure I can play with Commish mode to swing the game toward favoring pitching. I'm only playing on the default right now. But it seems ridiculous that THIS is the default. I also worry how much altering it toward pitching will affect hitters -- I don't want to have my few good hitters turn into .250 BA, 12 HR guys.

I quit playing Baseball Mogul because after five years in game, you could build a dynasty with any team, and the game was too easy. I'm about to quit playing OOTP because I can't ever get above .500 no matter what team I start with, and no matter what players I acquire. I increase my scouting and player development budget well over the league average, to no avail.

Maybe I simply need someone to give me a strategy guide for creating a pitching staff. I'll search the forums. But honestly, it's overly frustrating to have to do so, just to be able to have a shot at a decent season. I tried maybe 5-6 teams for multiple seasons in OOTP 13, and so far I've done 2 teams for 2-3 seasons in 14 with same results.

[The Wolf]

When pitchers do better elsewhere, check the park factors and defenses involved.

[CatKnight]

1) Is Scouting on? If so, remember your scouts can be wrong. Pretty horribly wrong I might add.

2) Can you post your rotation/bullpen, some stats (WHIP for one...), and their ratings in Stuff/Control/Movement? Might help us to see what you're looking at.

3) Don't trust stars. I won't say they're wrong - I don't entirely understand them - but they can certainly be misleading. I have indeed seen 1-2 star players flourish while 3+ star players struggle.

4) Tell us about your catcher. Specifically, what is his catcher ability? In OOTP 13-14 it has an effect on your pitchers' ability. (Same thing for BM from 08ish)

5) How are your fielders' defensive abilities? Errors and missed plays do add up.

[The Wolf]

Also Statistically Speaking | MVN - Most Valuable Network » Blog Archive » On the reliability of pitching stats

[mattb_222]

I find that a Legendary (or close to) pitching coach can make quite a difference.

In my own experience, I see this with bullpens in terms of guys not living up to their ratings, but usually not as much with starters. Your experience definitely seems outside the norm.

I also don't think adjusting your league to make it more pitching-orientated will help. If you have say the 12th best pitching staff in the league statistically, you'll likely have the 12th best pitching staff regardless the league modifiers or so I would think.

[BaseballMan]

Maybe your paying too much attention to your pitching staff? You can have a great pitching staff but if your players cant hit or field it doesn't do much good.
I dont think your do anything wrong or the game is either. I think its just takes time to see what works. I bet theres plenty of members who have had pitching staffs turn out to be disasters. It might be that mogul was just too easy for you. If you hang in there im sure success will come. But even then it wont be all the time. Theres still gonna be times that you have what looks like to you a great pitching staff they are terrible. Then you may have a staff that doesnt look good but turns out to be amazing. Would you really want a game you could build winning pitching staffs with ease? Dont get frustrated just keep playing and find what works for you.

[cpmackenzi]

Originally Posted by CatKnight

1) Is Scouting on? If so, remember your scouts can be wrong. Pretty horribly wrong I might add.

2) Can you post your rotation/bullpen, some stats (WHIP for one...), and their ratings in Stuff/Control/Movement? Might help us to see what you're looking at.

3) Don't trust stars. I won't say they're wrong - I don't entirely understand them - but they can certainly be misleading. I have indeed seen 1-2 star players flourish while 3+ star players struggle.

4) Tell us about your catcher. Specifically, what is his catcher ability? In OOTP 13-14 it has an effect on your pitchers' ability. (Same thing for BM from 08ish)

5) How are your fielders' defensive abilities? Errors and missed plays do add up.

(1) I look at my scout's ratings plus OSA's ratings. If one is far lower than the other, I generally don't pick up that player. But again, considering I often acquire real-life MLB studs (J. Zimmermann, King Felix, Garza, Kershaw, Bumgarner to name some from various seasons/games), you'd think they'd be a safe bet.

(2) Jordan Zimmermann from most recent season. 4.5 stars according to my guy, 4 stars according to OSA. A 14/13/17 STU/MOV/CON rating by my guy. Fast 12, Curve 11, Slider 17, Change 12. 4.97 ERA, 1.46 WHIP in 2014. I traded for him in 2013, and for WAS he was 2.49 ERA, 1.07 WHIP, but when for me he went 6.71 ERA, 1.65 WHIP. Yes, I'm in Wrigley Field, but not all his games are pitched there. This kind of process is on par with all of my SP for all my seasons.

(3) That's fine that stars can be misleading, but then what's the point? Pick up players doing well on other teams? See Zimmermann results above.

(4) Catcher is another position that has sucked for me in OOTP 14. I have tried maybe 5-6 catchers in two seasons, and none of them hit above .240, and most struggle with Mendoza line. Last season I had guys with Catcher Ability 10 and 14, and one I traded away was 16.

(5) I don't know the best stat to show for fielding, but I don't think they're awful. I ranked 15th in Defensive Efficiency though. Catcher fielding percent in .990s, 1B was .989, 2Bs were .980s and .960s, 3Bs were .970s and .980s, SS was .970. The 3 OF i have on my team after the season were all in .990s, Soriano left but he was even .986. That doesn't seem awful to me.

[cpmackenzi]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Maybe your paying too much attention to your pitching staff? You can have a great pitching staff but if your players cant hit or field it doesn't do much good.
I dont think your do anything wrong or the game is either. I think its just takes time to see what works. I bet theres plenty of members who have had pitching staffs turn out to be disasters. It might be that mogul was just too easy for you. If you hang in there im sure success will come. But even then it wont be all the time. Theres still gonna be times that you have what looks like to you a great pitching staff they are terrible. Then you may have a staff that doesnt look good but turns out to be amazing. Would you really want a game you could build winning pitching staffs with ease? Dont get frustrated just keep playing and find what works for you.

I kinda understand you. But I've tried multiple teams, playing for multiple years at a time. I've had maybe one year where my pitching staff actually did well and I made playoffs. That's one year out of 7-8 teams, times anywhere from 2-7 years per team.

Do I want a game where it's super-easy? No, which is why I quit Mogul. But I play half a season with my staff, 4/5 of it sucks, I trade for new guys, and 4/5 of THEM suck. Year in, year out.

[Padreman]

Originally Posted by CatKnight

1) Is Scouting on? If so, remember your scouts can be wrong. Pretty horribly wrong I might add.

Very true . In this last season I had a 39 old pitcher with a one star rating. The scout report said he was a below average pitcher with little work ethnic. Only a September call up.
After reading that you think this guy is garbage. Well that pitcher won the ERA title at 2.22 went 17-5 and was a All-Star.

[Toado]

You could try doing what I do!.... take over the Padres, acquire a Gold Glove catcher and make sure all your starters are above average defensively... you'll find yourself with a top-notch pitching staff even if it's made up of pretty mediocre talent.

[mpejkrm]

Not everyone is a "safe bet". Remember Tim Lincecum, two time Cy Young winner? Yeah.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by cpmackenzi

and so far I've done 2 teams for 2-3 seasons in 14 with same results.

That's pretty high speed work since Monday. My advice is to slow down look at the players closely and understand that overall ratings just tell you that a player should be good, not that he will always be good. Going so fast limits your ability to see differences between players that may work. You said your team sucks. Why do you think that 2-3 seasons is enough time to turn it around?

Slow down and enjoy the total experience.

[Tyler87898]

Can we see each of your SPs BABIP? WAR? Can we see your infielders and outielders ZR? Bad range can really hurt.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by cpmackenzi

Gotta say that pitching staffs in this game are frustrating beyond belief. I stopped playing OOTP 13 because I could NEVER put together a consistently good pitching staff. I didn't buy OOTP 14 until they discounted to half off, and I'm glad I waited because that problem has continued for me in OOTP 14. I would trade for players with no less than 4 stars. Had a rotation full of real-life studs who were all 4.5 stars or higher, plus a bullpen with no one lower than 3 stars. My team sucks horribly, I got a season score of 1/100, and only one starter has an ERA below 4.00.

What's more, a 2-star prospect I traded to get a stud SP turns out to win the ROY by hitting .296 with 32 HR -- yet he's still currently 1 star with 2 star potential in my and OSA's scouting. And as often happens in baseball sim games (Baseball Mogul, too), any pitchers I trade away flourish, whereas any top pitchers I acquire immediately stink when they join my team.

I am sure I can play with Commish mode to swing the game toward favoring pitching. I'm only playing on the default right now. But it seems ridiculous that THIS is the default. I also worry how much altering it toward pitching will affect hitters -- I don't want to have my few good hitters turn into .250 BA, 12 HR guys.

I quit playing Baseball Mogul because after five years in game, you could build a dynasty with any team, and the game was too easy. I'm about to quit playing OOTP because I can't ever get above .500 no matter what team I start with, and no matter what players I acquire. I increase my scouting and player development budget well over the league average, to no avail.

Maybe I simply need someone to give me a strategy guide for creating a pitching staff. I'll search the forums. But honestly, it's overly frustrating to have to do so, just to be able to have a shot at a decent season. I tried maybe 5-6 teams for multiple seasons in OOTP 13, and so far I've done 2 teams for 2-3 seasons in 14 with same results.

Post your team, and other info about your league i want to test it myself. I never have a problem winning unless my team is 25 rookies. Fire your scout? I find OOTP to be to easy to trade for top guys and to easy to build a winner within 3 seasons.

[Fyrestorm3]

Originally Posted by The Game

Post your team, and other info about your league i want to test it myself. I never have a problem winning unless my team is 25 rookies. Fire your scout? I find OOTP to be to easy to trade for top guys and to easy to build a winner within 3 seasons.

Same here. The first thing that went through my head when reading this was "too hard? I have to impose house rules on my games or else I'll win the title every other season."

But to the OP: listen to what everyone else has said, the most important being the ability to turn off scouting. If scouting is off, with trading set to Normal difficulty, you can game the AI and build a winner in no time flat.

[olivertheorem]

The team stat rankings are by subleague, right? So 15th in Defensive efficiency would be dead last in whichever league. This is bad. Part of the reason my Astros pitchers are pretty consistently good is because I have Gold Glove caliber defenders at multiple positions (LF, RF, 3B, and SS off the top of my head), and the others are above-average at least.

That plus a tendency toward groundballers tends to give me success. Got to tailor your defense to your staff. Have a lot of groundballers? Load up on IF defense. Flyballers? Outfield range/error guys. You can't just grab a bunch of high-rated guys and plug them in. You've got to think about how they'll fit into whatever else you have, and how your D will influence their results.

[Tyler87898]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

The team stat rankings are by subleague, right? So 15th in Defensive efficiency would be dead last in whichever league. This is bad. Part of the reason my Astros pitchers are pretty consistently good is because I have Gold Glove caliber defenders at multiple positions (LF, RF, 3B, and SS off the top of my head), and the others are above-average at least.

That plus a tendency toward groundballers tends to give me success. Got to tailor your defense to your staff. Have a lot of groundballers? Load up on IF defense. Flyballers? Outfield range/error guys. You can't just grab a bunch of high-rated guys and plug them in. You've got to think about how they'll fit into whatever else you have, and how your D will influence their results.

Yep. Very good info right here.

[Thundercrack]

ootp 14, to its credit, provides the greatest challenge to the solo player in the series history. That being said, I took over the 2013 Mets and won two championships in the next decade. A little work and a little patience is all you need.

[cpmackenzi]

Originally Posted by RchW

That's pretty high speed work since Monday. My advice is to slow down look at the players closely and understand that overall ratings just tell you that a player should be good, not that he will always be good. Going so fast limits your ability to see differences between players that may work. You said your team sucks. Why do you think that 2-3 seasons is enough time to turn it around?

Slow down and enjoy the total experience.

I'm used to basic controls because I've played OOTP 12, 13, 14. Someone else in this thread said maybe I was micromanaging, but you're saying to slow down more? In Baseball Mogul I could whip through 3+ seasons in the time I take to do one season of OOTP. (Yes, that's one reason I want to like OOTP more. I like putting in work.) I DO take my time -- I simply had a lot of time to spend on the game this week, LoL.

As for the whole "team sucks" comment... I didn't say they suck -- that is, given the players I acquire, I don't expect a terrible record. I acquire all-stars and highly rated players, and they are sucking when they're here. There's a difference. I'm not running out a team of scrubs, I'm maxing my salary cap and getting allegedly quality players. Sticking with this most recent example, my first season my score was in the low teens (13 I think?), and that team looked worse on paper (and did worse offensively) than the team I put together for 2014 season, yet I scored a 1/100 in 2014.

[cpmackenzi]

Originally Posted by olivertheorem

The team stat rankings are by subleague, right? So 15th in Defensive efficiency would be dead last in whichever league. This is bad. Part of the reason my Astros pitchers are pretty consistently good is because I have Gold Glove caliber defenders at multiple positions (LF, RF, 3B, and SS off the top of my head), and the others are above-average at least.

That plus a tendency toward groundballers tends to give me success. Got to tailor your defense to your staff. Have a lot of groundballers? Load up on IF defense. Flyballers? Outfield range/error guys. You can't just grab a bunch of high-rated guys and plug them in. You've got to think about how they'll fit into whatever else you have, and how your D will influence their results.

Nationals went to World Series in my most recent year. Here are their positional "EFF" (I assume Defense Efficiency) for the positions players with most playing time at each position. C: .930, 1B: 1.042/1.015, 2B: 1.037, 3B: 1.093, SS: .979, LF: 1.134, CF: 1.000/.964, RF: 1.048/1.063.

Here are my Cubs "EFF" scores. C: 1.121/.979, 1B: 1.016, 2B: 1.015, 3B: 1.159/1.024/.934, SS: .997, LF: .964/1.053, CF: .980/.919, RF: 1.099 (gold glove).

I got them beat at C, SS, RF. I'm close with some players at 1B, 3B, CF. I don't have the time to compare my EFF to all other teams, but that's one team that did well in the season.