Highest Rested Starter

PSUColonel · 07-09-2013, 02:39 AM

When you are allowing the AI to set lineups/depth/rotations, is it a good idea to use strict order with occasionally highest rested starter, or simply "highest rested starter"?

Edit: the problem is players are being shuffled in and out of rotations due to injuries/promotion/demotion all of the time...

PSUColonel · 07-09-2013, 01:13 PM

Anybody? It just seems more logical to use the "highest rested" setting. Does this in some way effect season stats' totals?

rpriske · 07-09-2013, 01:15 PM

I use highest rested.

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 01:23 PM

I use highest rested because I like the way that it distributes the number of games each player gets. Usually my #1 and #2 starters get about 36 starts while my #3 and #4 average 33 starts. This leaves my #5 with only 24 or so starts. If I use a spot starter my number #5 will get about 16-18 starts.

PSUColonel · 07-09-2013, 01:33 PM

Are those realistic numbers when compared to the MLB?

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Are those realistic numbers when compared to the MLB?

I am not sure of this but I think that all teams don't get these result due to pitcher fatigue or injury.

I just looked at 10 seasons on Baseball Reference and most of the teams had a high of 33 starts with 6 man pitching starts. The starts range from 21 up to 33.

So the OOTP setups allow 3 more starts with playing highest rested, but MLB teams also have 6 players starting through out the year instead of the 5 in OOTP.

actionjackson · 07-09-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Are those realistic numbers when compared to the MLB?

I would say MLB generally uses "strict rotation" as most teams seem to put their starters in a 5-man regardless of off days, until it gets down to the nitty gritty, but even then. Once the playoffs come they roll out either 3 or 4-man rotations, which is more like highest rested.

PSUColonel · 07-09-2013, 02:07 PM

My biggest concern with using a strict rotation is this: when you demote/promote a player, the AI will shuffle the staff around meaning the rotation is no longer the same, thereby using a starter who may be exhausted. Each pitcher will be less than optimal until the rotation completes itself once through. "Start highest rested" would theoretically cut through this, but also no produce the most realistic results either

Charlie Hough · 07-09-2013, 02:08 PM

I always use strict rotation with occasional use of the highest rested starter. It works perfectly. OOTP regularly skips a strictly ordered start to use the highest rested starter if the would-be starter isn't well over 90% rested.

Using only the highest rested setting results in too many skipped starts in my opinion. The top two starters will be abused at the expense of starts for the last two.

The Game · 07-09-2013, 02:08 PM

I use highest rested but except for my current season I havent had too many injuries. In a 144 g schedule my #1 gets 38 starts, #2 37-38 #3 36-38 and #4 23-26. No #5.

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Are those realistic numbers when compared to the MLB?

Close enough.

EKomrska15 · 07-09-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandMan

So the OOTP setups allow 3 more starts with playing highest rested, but MLB teams also have 6 players starting through out the year instead of the 5 in OOTP.

I haven't seen an MLB team use a 6 man rotation outside of the rockies Last Year.

5 man rotation would give each guy 32 starts and the top 2 33.

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 02:54 PM

I never said that teams are using a 6 man rotation, I was saying that if you look at pitcher starts you will see that teams use 6 pitchers during the season that have 20 or more starts.

Go to Baseball reference and pick out 10 random teams during the 2009-2012 season and you will be surprised on the actual games that pitchers start. I was not saying that teams use 6 man rotations, I said that there were 6 pitchers with 20 or more starts on these teams. You will not find a team that uses pitchers and they finish with 5 pitchers with over 30 starts. It just does not happen.

Teams that I picked randomly had 6 pitchers with 20 or more starts with only 1 pitcher over 32 starts. I feel that these numbers reflect pitcher fatigue or injury.

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EKomrska15

5 man rotation would give each guy 32 starts and the top 2 33.

I have not seen a team with 5 players with 32 starts and the top 2 with 33 starts. It just ain't going to happen. I have quickly researched this on the BR site and could not see any team with the totals you state.

I just looked at the 2012 Detroit Tigers. Their pitchers has 33,32,31,26,18, and 12 starts. This is 6 pitchers with the #5 guy with 18 starts and a 6th guy with 12 starts. This is what I see in many of the teams that I looked at. The teams I selected were totally random and I did not know the number of pitchers with pitchers starts of 20 or more.

Flatbush · 07-09-2013, 02:58 PM

Good discussion Colonel, and maybe I'm learning something. In my first six weeks with OOTP, I have primarily used a strict rotation, but with some exceptions.

My exception has been in a case like this: we're playing a team that is starting a guy with an ERA of 4.85, and according to strict rotation, my scheduled pitcher would be my number one guy with an ERA of 2.35. But tomorrow we're playing a better team and their scheduled starter is their ace. In that case, I have put in a spot starter today against the 4.85 guy in order to go head-to-head with "ace against ace" tomorrow and also give my #1 guy an extra day's rest.

But yes, it will result, over a season, in a couple less starts. Maybe it's bad strategy.

How about this? Do you only bring in your Mariano Rivera type closer in the 9th when you are ahead? If you go strictly on that basis, he only might get an inning a week, if you win big or lose big a couple times in a row.

Best regards -

EKomrska15 · 07-09-2013, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandMan

I have not seen a team with 5 players with 32 starts and the top 2 with 33 starts. It just ain't going to happen. I have quickly researched this on the BR site and could not see any team with the totals you state.

I just looked at the 2012 Detroit Tigers. Their pitchers has 33,32,31,26,18, and 12 starts. This is 6 pitchers with the #5 guy with 18 starts and a 6th guy with 12 starts. This is what I see in many of the teams that I looked at. The teams I selected were totally random and I did not know the number of pitchers with pitchers starts of 20 or more.

I was stating that without injuries, callups or trades it would reflect those numbers.

Charlie Hough · 07-09-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandMan

I have not seen a team with 5 players with 32 starts and the top 2 with 33 starts. It just ain't going to happen. I have quickly researched this on the BR site and could not see any team with the totals you state.

Whoops. There goes that claim, almost to the exact numbers.

2003 New York Yankees

The top two starters (Clemens and Pettitte) had exactly 33 starts, and all 5 starting slots had between 30 and 33 GS.

If the Yankees had chosen to use Weaver for all of his possible starts rather than give Jose Contreras nine starts, Weaver's total might have been 33 GS.

The Yankees used a strict 5-man rotation and did so with virtually no deviation or variation all season.

SandMan · 07-09-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

Whoops. There goes that claim, almost to the exact numbers.

2003 New York Yankees

The top two starters (Clemens and Pettitte) had exactly 33 starts, and all 5 starting slots had between 30 and 33 GS.

If the Yankees had chosen to use Weaver for all of his possible starts rather than give Jose Contreras nine starts, Weaver's total might have been 33 GS.

The Yankees used a strict 5-man rotation and did so with virtually no deviation or variation all season.

Good catch.

What the Yankees did that season was not the norm. I don't think there were many teams with 5 starter all getting 30+ starts. Pitchers get inured too often in the MLB.

Wait a minute the Yankees only had 4 pitchers with 30 or more starts (Mussina, Wells, Clemens, and Pettite. We are not saying 33 in 5th slot because this is used with many different starters through out the season. I am talking about 5 individuals who have 30 or more starts. Go to 2004 and the Yankees who won 101 games only had 1 player with 30 starts and 5 pitchers ranging between 15-27 (27,27,22,18 and 15)

Now look at 2002 and the Yankees only have 2 starters with 30 start and have used 6 pitchers in their lineups. I used 2002 and 2004 because these were the season before and after 2003.

Charlie Hough · 07-09-2013, 06:46 PM

Most teams try to use 5 starters in a fairly consistent rotation, and they would get around 30+ starts each if not for injuries, demotions/call-ups, or moving pitchers between the bullpen and rotation.

This is what the 2003 Yankees did and most teams have tried to do for the past 30+ years of baseball. 5-man rotations have been the norm since the deadball era, but for a few decades in between then and now, starts were regularly skipped for the 4th or especially the 5th starter to use the top two on short rest and particularly against the best teams in the league. Game logs prove this again and again.

Before the advent of the League Championship Series, winning games against the other contenders in your league was absolutely critical, so the top pitchers got more starts on short rest.

Over the past 30+ years, the rule has been to use a 5-man rotation and stick to it with relatively rare exceptions. You don't see the top starters used on short rest much anymore, and I've already covered the reasons why you don't consistently see rotations with 30+ starts across the board.

If you took injuries alone out of the equation, you would see it a lot in recent history. But even if pitchers are healthy, some guys have a poor run of performance, and then GM's and managers get inpatient and start experimenting by changing the mix. But they're merely putting different guys in the same slots and not deviating from the 5-man rotation.

You can easily look at game logs to see this play out.

RchW · 07-09-2013, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SandMan

I am not sure of this but I think that all teams don't get these result due to pitcher fatigue or injury.

I just looked at 10 seasons on Baseball Reference and most of the teams had a high of 33 starts with 6 man pitching starts. The starts range from 21 up to 33.

So the OOTP setups allow 3 more starts with playing highest rested, but MLB teams also have 6 players starting through out the year instead of the 5 in OOTP.

I think many many MLB teams use more (many more) than 6SP but they typically do it in 5 man rotations. You might see 7-8 SP used in 15 (3X5) starts. One significant difference IRL vs OOTP (depending on rotation settings) is that RL teams rarely use an off day to advance a SP, unless a critical/rival matchup occurs. That plus the lack of short term SP injuries accounts for higher SP starts in OOTP.

07-09-2013, 02:39 AM	#1
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,141	Highest Rested Starter When you are allowing the AI to set lineups/depth/rotations, is it a good idea to use strict order with occasionally highest rested starter, or simply "highest rested starter"? Edit: the problem is players are being shuffled in and out of rotations due to injuries/promotion/demotion all of the time... Last edited by PSUColonel; 07-09-2013 at 02:40 AM.

07-09-2013, 01:13 PM	#2
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,141	Anybody? It just seems more logical to use the "highest rested" setting. Does this in some way effect season stats' totals?

07-09-2013, 01:15 PM	#3
rpriske Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Spencerville, ON, Canada Posts: 27,388	I use highest rested.

07-09-2013, 01:23 PM	#4
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	I use highest rested because I like the way that it distributes the number of games each player gets. Usually my #1 and #2 starters get about 36 starts while my #3 and #4 average 33 starts. This leaves my #5 with only 24 or so starts. If I use a spot starter my number #5 will get about 16-18 starts.

07-09-2013, 01:33 PM	#5
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,141	Are those realistic numbers when compared to the MLB?

07-09-2013, 02:07 PM	#8
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,141	My biggest concern with using a strict rotation is this: when you demote/promote a player, the AI will shuffle the staff around meaning the rotation is no longer the same, thereby using a starter who may be exhausted. Each pitcher will be less than optimal until the rotation completes itself once through. "Start highest rested" would theoretically cut through this, but also no produce the most realistic results either

07-09-2013, 02:08 PM	#9
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	I always use strict rotation with occasional use of the highest rested starter. It works perfectly. OOTP regularly skips a strictly ordered start to use the highest rested starter if the would-be starter isn't well over 90% rested. Using only the highest rested setting results in too many skipped starts in my opinion. The top two starters will be abused at the expense of starts for the last two.

07-09-2013, 02:08 PM	#10
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	I use highest rested but except for my current season I havent had too many injuries. In a 144 g schedule my #1 gets 38 starts, #2 37-38 #3 36-38 and #4 23-26. No #5.

07-09-2013, 02:54 PM	#13
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	I never said that teams are using a 6 man rotation, I was saying that if you look at pitcher starts you will see that teams use 6 pitchers during the season that have 20 or more starts. Go to Baseball reference and pick out 10 random teams during the 2009-2012 season and you will be surprised on the actual games that pitchers start. I was not saying that teams use 6 man rotations, I said that there were 6 pitchers with 20 or more starts on these teams. You will not find a team that uses pitchers and they finish with 5 pitchers with over 30 starts. It just does not happen. Teams that I picked randomly had 6 pitchers with 20 or more starts with only 1 pitcher over 32 starts. I feel that these numbers reflect pitcher fatigue or injury.

07-09-2013, 02:58 PM	#15
Flatbush Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 5	Good discussion Colonel, and maybe I'm learning something. In my first six weeks with OOTP, I have primarily used a strict rotation, but with some exceptions. My exception has been in a case like this: we're playing a team that is starting a guy with an ERA of 4.85, and according to strict rotation, my scheduled pitcher would be my number one guy with an ERA of 2.35. But tomorrow we're playing a better team and their scheduled starter is their ace. In that case, I have put in a spot starter today against the 4.85 guy in order to go head-to-head with "ace against ace" tomorrow and also give my #1 guy an extra day's rest. But yes, it will result, over a season, in a couple less starts. Maybe it's bad strategy. How about this? Do you only bring in your Mariano Rivera type closer in the 9th when you are ahead? If you go strictly on that basis, he only might get an inning a week, if you win big or lose big a couple times in a row. Best regards -

07-09-2013, 06:46 PM	#19
Charlie Hough Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 3,644	Most teams try to use 5 starters in a fairly consistent rotation, and they would get around 30+ starts each if not for injuries, demotions/call-ups, or moving pitchers between the bullpen and rotation. This is what the 2003 Yankees did and most teams have tried to do for the past 30+ years of baseball. 5-man rotations have been the norm since the deadball era, but for a few decades in between then and now, starts were regularly skipped for the 4th or especially the 5th starter to use the top two on short rest and particularly against the best teams in the league. Game logs prove this again and again. Before the advent of the League Championship Series, winning games against the other contenders in your league was absolutely critical, so the top pitchers got more starts on short rest. Over the past 30+ years, the rule has been to use a 5-man rotation and stick to it with relatively rare exceptions. You don't see the top starters used on short rest much anymore, and I've already covered the reasons why you don't consistently see rotations with 30+ starts across the board. If you took injuries alone out of the equation, you would see it a lot in recent history. But even if pitchers are healthy, some guys have a poor run of performance, and then GM's and managers get inpatient and start experimenting by changing the mix. But they're merely putting different guys in the same slots and not deviating from the 5-man rotation. You can easily look at game logs to see this play out.