Strasburg excitement running out - Page 2

wireman · 06-17-2013, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihatenames

I don't think there is any question about Strasburg's talent. The question is can he stay healthy enought to be a healthy starting pitcher? His mechanics and history at this point lead me to say no, but if he can there is no question he has the ability to be dominating pitcher. And he's not nearly as exciting if he ultimately ends up in the bullpen. I hope I'm wrong about him as I love watching the guy throw.

I think his history is pretty much dominated right now by the Tommy John, which half the pitchers in the Nats organization have had (OK, well, sometimes it seems that way). I think we'll be better able to make a judgment a few years down the road on whatever fragility issues he might have, but my instincts are leading me slightly in the opposite direction.

And, yes, it's very entertaining to watch him pitch, especially when he's in a groove.

ihatenames · 06-17-2013, 11:12 PM

For those interested this is a pretty good piece on Strasburgs mechanics.

Pitching Mechanics Analysis - Stephen Strasburg

And this from the same guy focusing on why the inverted W is bad. Pretty good reads IMO:

Death To The Inverted W

wireman · 06-18-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihatenames

For those interested this is a pretty good piece on Strasburgs mechanics.

Pitching Mechanics Analysis - Stephen Strasburg

And this from the same guy focusing on why the inverted W is bad. Pretty good reads IMO:

Death To The Inverted W

When I see practically any big-league pitcher in slow motion, it looks like parts ought to just start flying off of them. It looks like the most stress-inducing thing in the world. I guess the exception would be Livan Hernandez, who was already in slow motion.

Anyway, thanks for the links. I don't understand too much of it, medically speaking, and I see that there are some people on both sides of the debate, so I'm not entirely sure what to think. Perhaps Strasburg becomes a guinea pig, as I don't think he's going to change the way he pitches at this point.

abailey3313 · 06-18-2013, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireman

He's still got some things to learn about pitching. And he's kind of fussy. He seems very distracted by every little thing: It's too hot, it's too cold. The mound's too high. He put on too much linament. He got a blister on his ass. Whatever. In my opinion, he'll have to get over that.

This.

He's competitive to a fault sometimes, turning into a sort of stubborn, adult crybaby. It's interesting to watch Jordan Zimmermann pitch and then contrast it against Strasburg. If Stras gives up a hit or a walk, his body language gets ugly fast. Zimmermann looks after a strikeout the way he looks after allowing a home run.

I read an article about it fairly recently, actually (in the Washington Post, maybe), where Zimmermann alluded to telling Stras he needs to control his emotion if not internally, than externally. Batters can sense when a pitcher is frustrated and he makes it all too obvious.

Goody · 06-18-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

This.

He's competitive to a fault sometimes, turning into a sort of stubborn, adult crybaby. It's interesting to watch Jordan Zimmermann pitch and then contrast it against Strasburg. If Stras gives up a hit or a walk, his body language gets ugly fast. Zimmermann looks after a strikeout the way he looks after allowing a home run.

I read an article about it fairly recently, actually (in the Washington Post, maybe), where Zimmermann alluded to telling Stras he needs to control his emotion if not internally, than externally. Batters can sense when a pitcher is frustrated and he makes it all too obvious.

This assessment kinda mirrors a young (well, he's still young) Felix Hernandez contrasted with Jason Vargas. Mind you, Vargas gives up a lot of home runs so he has a lot of chances to get used to it. But Vargas is one of the best at staying cool as ice no matter what.

Kobie · 06-18-2013, 10:17 PM

I'm not really sure why some people here are souring on Strasburg so much. He's done nothing to deserve it.

wireman · 06-19-2013, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobie

I'm not really sure why some people here are souring on Strasburg so much. He's done nothing to deserve it.

I can understand that those who believe he's wrecking his arm would be sour on his future. Souring on what he's accomplished so far seems unjustified. Guy has very good numbers and, well, you can see how good he is.

I do have my aforementioned questions about his temperament, but he's young and will have every opportunity to mature.

Rasmuth · 06-20-2013, 07:47 PM

I'm excited by only one young pitcher in MLB...he's already delivered the goods, he's the real deal and he's still only 25 years old....his name...Clayton Kershaw.

wireman · 06-21-2013, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasmuth

I'm excited by only one young pitcher in MLB...he's already delivered the goods, he's the real deal and he's still only 25 years old....his name...Clayton Kershaw.

Actually, I'm impressed by quite a few young pitchers, but I absolutely agree with your view of Kershaw. I thought he should have won the Cy again last year.

I guess some people resent Strasburg because he's been characterized as a talent who was in a class by himself when -- up to now, anyway -- he's simply not.

wireman · 06-22-2013, 12:39 PM

Another solid outing for Strasburg last night. He's given up a total of 6 earned runs in his last 7 starts. Even tossing out the 2-inning outing, that's impressive.

He may be pretty good one day.

Postman · 06-22-2013, 04:05 PM

He looked pretty good last night against the Rox.

Goody · 06-23-2013, 03:28 AM

Yeah I had to tune in when I heard he had a good game. If I watch a game already played I usually skip the the scoring innings... but if its a fun pitcher I watch all his innings.

abailey3313 · 06-24-2013, 11:01 AM

That was probably his best start of the season in terms of what he had working for him. His curveball looked better than it had all year and he was hitting 97-98 with his fastball.

wireman · 07-03-2013, 12:22 PM

Here we go again. Strasburg went 7 innings last night, gave up 3 hits (one of which was a flagrantly bad call on a play at first), no runs, struck out 8. Nats bat holders got nothing and Storen blew the game in the 8th.

The only way for Strasburg to get some wins (and some respect) is to stay in games until the Nats score for him, say, 12 or 13 innings.

cephasjames · 07-03-2013, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireman

Here we go again. Strasburg went 7 innings last night, gave up 3 hits (one of which was a flagrantly bad call on a play at first), no runs, struck out 8. Nats bat holders got nothing and Storen blew the game in the 8th.

The only way for Strasburg to get some wins (and some respect) is to stay in games until the Nats score for him, say, 12 or 13 innings.

As Max (12-0) Scherzer says, "Wins are a fluky stat." Because you can pitch a fantastic game, but still end up losing or getting a no decision.

wireman · 07-03-2013, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cephasjames

As Max (12-0) Scherzer says, "Wins are a fluky stat." Because you can pitch a fantastic game, but still end up losing or getting a no decision.

When I was a kid, wins was THE stat for a pitcher. But I've come to believe that it's a worthless evaluator.

abailey3313 · 07-03-2013, 03:48 PM

Strasburg has the worst run support/game of any qualified starter in the majors by almost a third of a run. I actually got fairly bothered the other day by a close friend, who tends to know his sports exceptionally well, telling me Strasburg has been a "disappointment" this year.

PotatoPeeler · 07-03-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wireman

When I was a kid, wins was THE stat for a pitcher. But I've come to believe that it's a worthless evaluator.

Almost every individual stat that relies on input from an individual's teammates (wins, losses, RBI, runs, etc) is virtually worthless as far as player evaluation is concerned.

PotatoPeeler · 07-03-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Strasburg has the worst run support/game of any qualified starter in the majors by almost a third of a run. I actually got fairly bothered the other day by a close friend, who tends to know his sports exceptionally well, telling me Strasburg has been a "disappointment" this year.

I hope you corrected him by changing "Strasburg" to a different proper noun.

CatKnight · 07-04-2013, 03:22 PM

I was curious, so I just pulled some of his current stats:

4-6, 2.24 ERA, 16 G/GS, 100.1 IP, 73 H, 31 BB, 98 K
168 ERA+, 1.04 WHIP, 2.8 BB/9, 8.8 K/9, 6.26 IP/GS, 2.2 PWAR, 0.1 BWAR

His stats are solid, but the Nats really need him to go the full year. We need to see how well he holds up over a full campaign.
ERA+ and WHIP are outstanding. BB/9 is on par with last year. K/9 is down, but that might actually be a good thing to drive his pitch count down.
IP/GS...I wish it were higher, but I know that's my 70s/80s mindset talking. I think this is fine for the modern era.
That WAR extrapolates to 4.4 for a 162g season. Borderline All Star, definitely solid contributor.
No, definitely not Koufax or Clemens*, but still very good.

06-17-2013, 11:12 PM	#22
ihatenames Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Rockford Posts: 2,534	For those interested this is a pretty good piece on Strasburgs mechanics. Pitching Mechanics Analysis - Stephen Strasburg And this from the same guy focusing on why the inverted W is bad. Pretty good reads IMO: Death To The Inverted W __________________ New Album coming soon!

06-18-2013, 10:17 PM	#26
Kobie Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 288	I'm not really sure why some people here are souring on Strasburg so much. He's done nothing to deserve it. __________________ Derp

06-20-2013, 07:47 PM	#28
Rasmuth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Upstate Western NY Posts: 1,760	I'm excited by only one young pitcher in MLB...he's already delivered the goods, he's the real deal and he's still only 25 years old....his name...Clayton Kershaw. __________________ http://www.soundclick.com/bands/defa...?bandID=250426

06-22-2013, 12:39 PM	#30
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	Another solid outing for Strasburg last night. He's given up a total of 6 earned runs in his last 7 starts. Even tossing out the 2-inning outing, that's impressive. He may be pretty good one day. __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

06-24-2013, 11:01 AM	#33
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	That was probably his best start of the season in terms of what he had working for him. His curveball looked better than it had all year and he was hitting 97-98 with his fastball. __________________

06-22-2013, 04:05 PM	#31
Postman Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Evergreen, CO Posts: 322	He looked pretty good last night against the Rox.

06-23-2013, 03:28 AM	#32
Goody Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: South Korea Posts: 3,530	Yeah I had to tune in when I heard he had a good game. If I watch a game already played I usually skip the the scoring innings... but if its a fun pitcher I watch all his innings.

07-03-2013, 12:22 PM	#34
wireman All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Harrisonburg VA Posts: 765	Here we go again. Strasburg went 7 innings last night, gave up 3 hits (one of which was a flagrantly bad call on a play at first), no runs, struck out 8. Nats bat holders got nothing and Storen blew the game in the 8th. The only way for Strasburg to get some wins (and some respect) is to stay in games until the Nats score for him, say, 12 or 13 innings. __________________ "Sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't."

07-03-2013, 03:48 PM	#37
abailey3313 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 3,718	Strasburg has the worst run support/game of any qualified starter in the majors by almost a third of a run. I actually got fairly bothered the other day by a close friend, who tends to know his sports exceptionally well, telling me Strasburg has been a "disappointment" this year. __________________

07-04-2013, 03:22 PM	#40
CatKnight All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cleveland, OH Posts: 1,199	I was curious, so I just pulled some of his current stats: 4-6, 2.24 ERA, 16 G/GS, 100.1 IP, 73 H, 31 BB, 98 K 168 ERA+, 1.04 WHIP, 2.8 BB/9, 8.8 K/9, 6.26 IP/GS, 2.2 PWAR, 0.1 BWAR His stats are solid, but the Nats really need him to go the full year. We need to see how well he holds up over a full campaign. ERA+ and WHIP are outstanding. BB/9 is on par with last year. K/9 is down, but that might actually be a good thing to drive his pitch count down. IP/GS...I wish it were higher, but I know that's my 70s/80s mindset talking. I think this is fine for the modern era. That WAR extrapolates to 4.4 for a 162g season. Borderline All Star, definitely solid contributor. No, definitely not Koufax or Clemens*, but still very good.