Graphics

[Work The Count]

Hello,

I wanted to make a suggestion for this game. Way back when this game was on the Commodore 64 as "Title Bout" by Avalon Hill, you guys used a sprite animation graphical system that was fantastic. The fighters moved all around the ring in real time, you had different sounds for the different degrees of how hard the punch was, sounds for the referee counting, knockdowns, etc. It was way more interesting and encapsulating that way. There was little text narrating needed because you could watch everything unfold in real time. It really made you hang on every moment. The way the graphics are now, with the still frames of 2 guys standing at the center of the ring just doesn't do it for me. I understand that this game is not a graphics oriented game, as I've been playing since the board game days since before it was ever on the computer (so I understand how the game works), but just that subtle difference made the game so much more interesting. It really made you feel like you were watching the bout and it was very exciting!I figure if it could be done way back in the Commodore 64 days, it certainly could be done now.

Here is a shot of what Im talking about:



Is there a way you guys could add that to this game? It really did add SO much to the game. Even that screenshot brings back great nostalgic memories.. wow was that a fun game!

Thank you

[Bogie]

I remember that! I could be mistaken but were not white guys white and black guys black in that version.

[Work The Count]

Originally Posted by Bogie

I remember that! I could be mistaken but were not white guys white and black guys black in that version.

Yes, it had both skin colors. Also, when you were entering new fighters you could choose which color as one of the options. It was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played in my life. I spent literally thousands of hours doing tournaments and such. Looking at those Commodore 64 screen shots gets me excited again lol

[Bogie]

I had many hours of fun with that as well. It was a pretty cool for the times. I would think if they could be "color correct" back then it would be possible to do the same now. Really you would only have to have maybe four different color types and then choose which one before the fight ... right

[Infinity]

Man, that brings back memories! Now I need to see if I can find an emulator that has that game....lol

[Work The Count]

I was a kid when that game came out on Commodore 64, and my dad, who has always been a huge boxing fan (He's on these forums too but I forget his user name lol), really got me into boxing through that game. I learned so much because we would use the cards from the board game in co-ordination with the computer game. I loved reading the bio's on the back of the cards before each fight and man, I was hooked. I specifically remember during one of our tournaments, Mel Turnbow (Rated a 1) was up against Ali (Back when 12 was the highest), it was late in the fight and Ali was just beating him into submission of course. Turnbow hadn't landed a punch in what seemed like about 2 rounds. A TKO was immanent as Ali worked him down into the right corner of the screen, when all of the sudden, Turnbow lurched forward and it made the sound effect of the hard 5 point punch and then the "BOOM" sound of someone hitting the canvas. I couldn't believe my eyes as Ali was on his Butt!! I remember when the Ref would count in that game his arm would go up and the sound effect would go "BYEWWWWWWW!! (1).. BYEWWWWWW! (2)... BYEWWWW!! (3).. etc) My heart was racing as the count got higher and higher. When it hit 10 (which was almost a mathematical impossibility against Ali) I jumped out of my chair and ran around the room about 78 times jumping up and down. I called my dad at work and told him what happened and I was so proud that I left the computer on all day just to show him when he got home.

Ill never forget that as long as I live. All because of the animated sprites! I remember where in the ring they were, what it looked like when it all went down.. everything. All like it happened yesterday.

So im begging the Developers to add something like that into the game again! It really adds excitement and some great memories! It makes each fight feel unique and so much more exciting.

Thanks!

[Bogie]

I guess I'm a little older than you, I must have been in my mid-twenties when I got the commodore 64. I had a racing game that was pretty cool, and I'm pretty sure I had my first Strat-O computer Baseball game for the 64, and of course the boxing game. I also used the cards in conjunction with the computer game. I still have the cards, I also make my own cards now! I have been playing since the board game fist came out back in the late 70's. It truly is amazing how this little game has made so many happy for so many years!

[Cap]

I think I mentioned elsewhere that this problem could be solved by using Black and White animation like the old movies. One light grey figure and one dark grey figure. Then you'd just need:

Light Grey vs Dark Grey
Dark Grey vs Light Grey
Light Grey vs Light Grey
Dark Grey vs Light Grey

So copy the pics and convert to B/W. If there are a dozen pics now, you'd need to copy three more sets and find some way to allow the player to set colours before the fight starts. And the problem she is sol-ved!

Cap

[javier_83]

damn i never saw a Commodore 64, the first console or computer that i used was my uncle's atari!! after that when i get my NES

[Rob Morris]

This is an interesting thread which got me thinking. I have been a long time player of the Championship Manager/Football Manager series and for a long time it never had graphics. I never felt deprived though I just relied on my imagination and the commentary I guess. It has graphics nowadays, which are pretty good but I often turn them off.

I quite like the commentary in TBCB and have never really looked too closely at the graphics in any of the versions although I have to admit I didn't own the game the OP refers to. Interesting debate though.

[javier_83]

Originally Posted by Rob Morris

This is an interesting thread which got me thinking. I have been a long time player of the Championship Manager/Football Manager series and for a long time it never had graphics. I never felt deprived though I just relied on my imagination and the commentary I guess. It has graphics nowadays, which are pretty good but I often turn them off.

I quite like the commentary in TBCB and have never really looked too closely at the graphics in any of the versions although I have to admit I didn't own the game the OP refers to. Interesting debate though.

very good post Rob!! im also a FM player and as you mention we are some kind of fans that look other thing beside the graphics, like the realism of the game or the data base! for example!!

[PWillisTheMan]

I also don't care about the graphics, I don't even use pictures. Sprucing up the fight engine & other options for self contained uni's is what I'm eagerly awaiting.

[westendcards]

I also agree. There has been a debate for years on this board regarding making sure the color of the boxer is correct. I am, as the three posts above stated, looking for statistical realism. If we get the correct boxer color I guess that is an upgrade to some. I am looking forward to making it easier to manually schedule multiple fights. I love some of the statistical reporting improvements such as cuts self/opp being fixed, DQ reporting being fixed, and KO % now correct. These are big improvements over the previous version. I do agree with a post I read earlier where it was stated this version seems harder to navigate then 2.5. I know, as with any new software revision, there are some things to get used to but it seems to take longer to do just about anything. For example, I loved in 2.5 how there was a menu at all times above what you did. If you went in to update information on a fighter, when you were done you could just click on the fighters list and it would bring you right back to the main list of fighters. With the new game you need to pull down a menu to get into the fighter's details. Then when done you have to exit out, why cant we just have that handy menu so we can move around much easier?

[Bogie]

Obviously graphics are not the reason we play this game, but with that said if we are going to have two animated boxers squaring off in the ring it would be cool to have the white guy white and the black guy black and so on. In many cases it's quite the opposite, it's just a little thing. I don't think any of us would be willing to give up statistical accuracy for better graphics however!

[Cap]

Re: graphics. As stated previously, an easy fix.

I'm all for improving the fight engine, but let's remember this is a game. It'll get pretty boring if fighter A always wins, even when matched against a slough of all time greats. Historical replays have their place, but not everyone is into that. Few want to recreate fights down to who was holding the spit-bucket. Results should be within the bounds of statistical possibility without being predictable. This game has stayed fresh for me for so many years because I never know for sure what's going to happen.

Certain things like the DQ problem have needed to be corrected, but lets not go overboard looking for a perfect recreation of past events or the elimination of that one in a million punch that Chuvalo lands on Ali's jaw, knocking him out to win the heavyweight championship of the world!

Cap

[westendcards]

Cap, I agree. I am into doing historical replays, but as you stated, I love that it doesn't always work out the way it was expected. If I knew who was going to win each fight there would be little enjoyment. I am looking forward to the continued growth of tbcb!

[Work The Count]

Im not suggesting sacrificing any realism part of the game or fight engine in any way. I guess my point was that if we had animated sprites all the way back in 1985 on a Commodore 64, there is absolutely no reason we couldn't have something like that now. Heck, if they used those exact sprites and animations from that game I'd be happy.

It was still this game, based on the Title Bout board game. Just a very much older version of it

[Cap]

Originally Posted by Work The Count

Im not suggesting sacrificing any realism part of the game or fight engine in any way. I guess my point was that if we had animated sprites all the way back in 1985 on a Commodore 64, there is absolutely no reason we couldn't have something like that now. Heck, if they used those exact sprites and animations from that game I'd be happy.

It was still this game, based on the Title Bout board game. Just a very much older version of it

The problem is that as much as you might like those sprites, they would not be a good sales point with new buyers. One look at them and they wouldn't bother looking any deeper.

Cap

[Work The Count]

Originally Posted by Cap

The problem is that as much as you might like those sprites, they would not be a good sales point with new buyers. One look at them and they wouldn't bother looking any deeper.

Cap

Fair enough.. but I was being a bit facetious. They could make them look more modern obviously.

Again, my whole point is that something this simple would add so much to the game.

[Mark42661]

I've always been in favor of a simple overhead view of the ring with little sprites representing the fighters and their ring location at any given moment. They don't have to be black or white or brown... they could just be red and blue, representing the corner they're fighting out of. That way we don't even have to worry about accurate skin colors and all of that.

In a way... and this is just my opinion... the new version fight graphics are almost a step back from 2.5. In 2.5 the fighters were at least somewhat generic looking. Now there is so much detail in the face (particulary of the white fighter) that it looks like a specific person. Hope that makes sense.