Yankees now fulfilling low expectations

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

We need to implode this mess and start fresh . . .

Ah, you mean something like 1995 and the debut of the "Core Four."

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Why would trading Cano make any sense? These days teams value prospects more than before, so how much can the Yankees expect to get by trading half season of his service away?

In the mean time, the team is still in contention. Why give that up?

Teams value prospects more than ever before but they still trade them. Wil Myers got flipped for James Shields in the off-season. Shields is a decent enough pitcher, but he netted the Rays one of the 5-10 best prospects in all of baseball. If a contending team thinks they can work out a long-term deal with Cano, I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be suitors.

And while the team is still in contention in 2013, I have a hard time buying they will be in 2014. I'm not saying they will trade him (they won't), but I don't see why it'd be off the table. The consensus here seems to be that they have too many hefty contracts to veteran players on the books. Even though there will likely be a mass exodus after this season, either because of expiring contracts or retirements, how is handing a 31-year-old second baseman a big extension because he's "the next great Yankee" okay, but handing that money to all those other guys isn't?

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Ah, you mean something like 1995 and the debut of the "Core Four."

Yep

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

Teams value prospects more than ever before but they still trade them. Wil Myers got flipped for James Shields in the off-season. Shields is a decent enough pitcher, but he netted the Rays one of the 5-10 best prospects in all of baseball. If a contending team thinks they can work out a long-term deal with Cano, I don't see any reason why there wouldn't be suitors.

James Shield was under contract for two more years with reasonable salary at the time of the trade. With Cano, it's half a year of expensive salary left. You can see how the former is way more valuable than the latter in terms of trades.

These days really you have to trade away relatively young and still relatively reasonably priced players to get good prospects. If Yankees have any player like that, they'd keep him.

[abailey3313]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

James Shield was under contract for two more years with reasonable salary at the time of the trade. With Cano, it's half a year of expensive salary left. You can see how the former is way more valuable than the latter in terms of trades.

These days really you have to trade away relatively young and still relatively reasonably priced players to get good prospects. If Yankees have any player like that, they'd keep him.

The Mets were able to get a good package of prospects (including Travis d'Arnaud, who was ranked #6 coming into this season, and Noah Syndergaard, who was #29) in return for RA Dickey, who is eight years older than Cano and had neither a long-term contract in place or a comparable track record of success.

I guess what I'm saying is that teams do, in fact, trade prospects for established veterans, which is what I think you were disputing to begin with. What they could get for him, I don't know, but I suspect the value they'd get in return would be greater over the long haul than keeping him for several years at a high cost, especially if there isn't going to be talent around him.

[Déjà Bru]

This Zoilo Almonte may be something. Yeah, I get impatient sometimes and I know nothing about running a baseball team like Cashman does. So all right, he signs a guy like Vernon Wells, who is obviously on the downside of his career, instead of bringing up Almonte. And if Wells were batting .300, I'd have nothing to say and Cashman looks like a genius. Wells is not batting .300, though. Still, Cashman did the right thing and now that Wells has deteriorated further, Cashman has a plan B: prospect Almonte. Only a few games, but he looks impressive at first glance. Where he been?

EDIT: Of course, just as I was typing this, Wells hits a bases-clearing double to put the Yankees ahead of the Rays, 7-5.

[CommishJoe]

Great article about Zolio Almonte. I hope he's the real deal and not a Kevin Mass/Dan Pasqua...

Zoilo Almonte seizing his opportunity » Yanks in Exile

[ihatenames]

Zoilo Almonte has been pretty good since he came up but his career minor league numbers don't scream out star in the making. He might turn out to be solid regular but I'd be pretty surprised if was anything better than that. His slash line in over 2671 minor league at bats is .269/.333/.432.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Great article about Zolio Almonte. I hope he's the real deal and not a Kevin Mass/Dan Pasqua...

Zoilo Almonte seizing his opportunity » Yanks in Exile

Hmmm. He's 0 for 10 in his last three games. Remember when we were talking about Adams in hopeful terms? That guy is so cold, he's frozen. Could be rookie jitters.

Almonte is an old rookie in that, although he's only 24, he's been in the Yankees farm system for eight years (he signed when he was 16)!

So I am hoping with that experience, he will NOT get rookie jitters.

Say, that looks like a cool web site, Yanks in Exile. That's for Yankees fans not in the NY area, yes? Great idea.

Read the "Zero Offense" post about the "anemic" Yankees offense which is the source of their current woes. If this does not turn around, and/or some of the regulars return AND Cano get off his schneid, this is going to get ugly, I think.

[CommishJoe]

Yeah, I'm actually subscribed to this site through Facebook. I get some gems every now and then.

[CommishJoe]

Jeter is penciled into the lineup at DH today. Should be interesting to see how he does. Heck, he can't hurt the Yankees offense, that's for sure .

[swampdragon]

The Yankees may resign Cano in 2014, but if they do they can't pick up anyone else without going over the magic $185 million payroll number. They've been mortgaging the future and trading prospects for so long that the most surprising thing is that they haven't had to pay off to it before now. I think the championship runs for this Yankee incarnation, which we'll call the Jeter-Rivera Yankees, are done. They should spend the next 18 months tearing the team down and starting over. It won't take long to rebuild once the financial flexibility is back. Look at how fast the Red Sox have rebounded.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

The Yankees may resign Cano in 2014, but if they do they can't pick up anyone else without going over the magic $185 million payroll number. They've been mortgaging the future and trading prospects for so long that the most surprising thing is that they haven't had to pay off to it before now. I think the championship runs for this Yankee incarnation, which we'll call the Jeter-Rivera Yankees, are done. They should spend the next 18 months tearing the team down and starting over. It won't take long to rebuild once the financial flexibility is back. Look at how fast the Red Sox have rebounded.

I agree with this, but I think it starts with trading Cano. I know, that's unheard of, but I'd like to get something more than supplemental draft picks for this guy. He's definitely not worth $20m/yr and I don't want to see him sign for 8 years. So, trade him now and get some decent prospects for the guy and start the rebuilding once their cap # resets.

I'll keep my fingers crossed that A-Rod does something stupid that allows the Yanks to get out of that insane contract. But, I won't hold my breath

[monkeyman576]

Yankees need to learn you can't buy championships anymore.

[John Madden]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

Yankees need to learn you can't buy championships anymore.

You never could. What the Yankees buy are tickets to the crapshoot known as the MLB playoffs.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by monkeyman576

Yankees need to learn you can't buy championships anymore.

The teams of the late 90s was built with home grown kids and great trades. There were very few free agents associated with them. When the Yanks started going down hill is when Steinbrenner started getting involved again and signed big name free agents like Giambi, Sheffield etc. You can try to discount their late 90s success all you want, but you'll come up short on facts.

I'm not denying that the teams built this century were built "wrong", but they've been met with some pretty consistent success in post-season births. That formula won't work with the mess they have. They need to blow this team up and start over, the right way. Cash has done a decent job of injecting youth in some spots (Cano, Gardner, Robertson, Nova) but that needs to be more wide spread in order for them to do anything more than just a playoff birth.

Honestly, your recycled "buy championships" line would be better used on the Angels and Dodgers these days.

[monkeyman576]

That's just because free agents aren't as keen to join the Yankees as they used to be.

[CommishJoe]

Well, to get back to reality, the Yankees offense seems to have come to life today. I was skeptical yesterday because 7 of their 8 runs were scored off 2 HRs, but today has been a different story. A lot of well timed hits, which might have been more if not for Almonte's bone headed baserunning decision. Still, he did get a 2 out single that plated the 7th run of the game.

Jeter is 1-4 with an RBI that scored on a fielders choice.

[TribeFanInNC]

I thought the Yanks were just kinda riding out a couple years here to get under whatever luxury cap threshold needed to stay out of "super duper pay out the nose" mode. And basically once they get under that amount, they could return to $300M payrolls again.

I can't see them just blowing things up and starting over. They are just going to cycle back to good like they did in 2009 by continuing to spend. I think the hope was that 2009 wasn't just a one time deal, as it turned out to be.

Anyway, I'm sure we will continue to see high salary players on the Yanks in the future. It's not that it doesn't work. They have certainly given themselves plenty of opportunity to win. It's that they are choosing not do to it this year.

[swampdragon]

I think it is difficult to win without the core of homegrown talent to build the free agents and trades around. The Yankees are at that point in the cycle where the homegrown talent (Gardner, Cano, Hughes, Nova) just isn't good enough to build a team around, and the free agents (Tex, Sabathia, A-Rod, Ichiro) are in their 30s and past their primes. I think it would be best for them to just blow this group up for prospects good enough to form a new core.