Yankees now fulfilling low expectations

[Déjà Bru]

Despite having led off the season looking competitive, they're showing their shortcomings now, as expected.

Reason: Aside from Cano (and he's been in a slump recently), they're not hitting. Hafner, Overbay, Wells, and Youkilis all look like old guys way past their prime and Teixeira sucks as usual. Guys like Gardner, Stewart, Nix, and present-day Ichiro are not enough to carry a team to victories.

As one commentator said, "THIS TEAM NEEDS AN ENEMA."

[CommishJoe]

Too much age and too many bad contracts. Hopefully A-Rod will need to retire and we can get some of his contract back via insurance, but that doesn't address CC, our future closer, 1b, C, SS, heck even 2b if Cano gets too greedy.

This team needs to be imploded and started over.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Despite having led off the season looking competitive, they're showing their shortcomings now, as expected.

Reason: Aside from Cano (and he's been in a slump recently), they're not hitting. Hafner, Overbay, Wells, and Youkilis all look like old guys way past their prime and Teixeira sucks as usual. Guys like Gardner, Stewart, Nix, and present-day Ichiro are not enough to carry a team to victories.

As one commentator said, "THIS TEAM NEEDS AN ENEMA."

Heh. Typical Yankees fan. Can't take a little adversity, can you? Here's a towel for your crying face. Waaah!

[ihatenames]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Too much age and too many bad contracts. Hopefully A-Rod will need to retire and we can get some of his contract back via insurance, but that doesn't address CC, our future closer, 1b, C, SS, heck even 2b if Cano gets too greedy.

This team needs to be imploded and started over.

Not a yankees fan mind you but you are absolutely correct. I think it's time to let the yankees be bad for a few years. Get some money off the books and quit trying to put expensive bandaids on everything. With the lengthy pricey contracts on the books right now that will not be easy.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by ihatenames

Not a yankees fan mind you but you are absolutely correct. I think it's time to let the yankees be bad for a few years. Get some money off the books and quit trying to put expensive bandaids on everything. With the lengthy pricey contracts on the books right now that will not be easy.

Well said. I agree with Joe's comment but I would rather, for example:

1. Tell A-Rod to take a hike. Cut him a discounted check for the balance.
2. Not sign anymore guys like Youkilis, IF
3. Somebody like David Adams can take over and grow.

If ideas like this mean the Yankees don't win the Division, much less the World Series for a few seasons (the horror !) or even if they are sub-.500 for a while (inconceivable !), so be it. I'm tired of being the butt of anti-Yankees jokes and hatred. I cannot blame some people for feeling the way they do but, on the other hand, they need to look to their own teams because many of them are doing the same darned things as the Yankees these days.

I took so much satisfaction from the 1998 Yankees team. I wax nostalgic.

[Goody]

After many years of pain (for everyone not a Yankee fan) maybe baseball can correct itself. We'll see.

[abailey3313]

I think they should try to trade Cano.

The big reason they are where they are is because of bad contracts. They'll get some relief after this season when guys like Rivera, Granderson, Pettitte, Youkilis, Kuroda, et al likely depart, but handing a big-time contract to a 31-year-old second baseman seems like rinsing and repeating to me.

It's tough to buy that Cano + whatever's left of this current roster after retirements/departures (including a presumably healthy 38-year-old Jeter) + whatever's added through a weak free agency class is going to be enough to compete, so why pay Cano a superstar's ransom to wallow on a struggling team? They've had him through his prime, so ship him off for some prospects and let someone else foot the bill.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by abailey3313

I think they should try to trade Cano.

Wow, that is a tough pill to swallow but an interesting thought. I don't think it's going to happen, though, because Cashman would be run out of town, tarred and feathered. Unfortunately, I think (but hope not) we will see another one of those A-Rod-like 10-year mega-contracts which you start regretting by year 5 or so.

[Skipaway]

I am not sure how is the Yankees considered a struggling team. It's not a great team, but it's a team with .561 winning percentage. It's not a situation like the Dodgers. Even if you consider all the long term big contracts as sunk cost, the left over budget will still allow the team to spend more than the Red Sox.

The increasing challenge for the Yankees these years have been all the poor teams are now not so poor due to the huge income increase from media contracts. So all teams can spend big bucks to tie up the best young talents they developed. There have been fewer talents on the free agent market for Yankees to bid on. Also teams used to trade talented but overpaid players to the Yankees. Now they are all rich enough to keep those still useful but expensive players. The kind of overpaid players that's still available are mostly useless ones.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Wow, that is a tough pill to swallow but an interesting thought. I don't think it's going to happen, though, because Cashman would be run out of town, tarred and feathered. Unfortunately, I think (but hope not) we will see another one of those A-Rod-like 10-year mega-contracts which you start regretting by year 5 or so.

I agree - I think one of the biggest attractions about Cano right now and what makes it very difficult to let him go is, he's the next great Yankee bound for the Hall. With Jeter, the current face of the Yankees, fading away slowly, Cano is the next obvious choice to fill those shoes. AFAIK his image is clean for the most part (please correct me if I'm wrong) and follows that Yankee tradition.

[canadiancreed]

I'd feel bad for you but I can't see past the rage of seeing a team of supposed decent players keeping Miami and Houston company.

[rudel.dietrich]

You can't just release ARod

Bru, you are a smart guy but I think you don't understand the fundamental meaning of what a contract is.


The Yankees should try and trade him and agree to pay 50-60% of his contract yearly. But I don't think any teams would even be interested in that!

But then again, the organization knew the risks when they signed him. You underpay him for the first several years and then overpay him for the rest.

Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Mauer are going to go through the same thing.

When you give out those mega decade long contracts, you run the risk of having an albatross by the final 1/3 of the contract.

I don't think the Yankees are in that bad of shape.
Unfortunately they are in a position where they can NEVER go through rebuilding. The fan base simply will not allow it.
So instead your stuck with having to bring in established players who are expensive.
While other teams rely on a certain number of league minimums and arbitration players, the Yankees are either having to pay players 100% of their worth or overpay for them.

[Skipaway]

Why would trading Cano make any sense? These days teams value prospects more than before, so how much can the Yankees expect to get by trading half season of his service away?

In the mean time, the team is still in contention. Why give that up?


And players like Kevin Youkilis definitely isn't a problem. That's the kind of one-year stopgap measure the Yankees can afford when there are no better alternatives.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

I am not sure how is the Yankees considered a struggling team. It's not a great team, but it's a team with .561 winning percentage. It's not a situation like the Dodgers. Even if you consider all the long term big contracts as sunk cost, the left over budget will still allow the team to spend more than the Red Sox.

The increasing challenge for the Yankees these years have been all the poor teams are now not so poor due to the huge income increase from media contracts. So all teams can spend big bucks to tie up the best young talents they developed. There have been fewer talents on the free agent market for Yankees to bid on. Also teams used to trade talented but overpaid players to the Yankees. Now they are all rich enough to keep those still useful but expensive players. The kind of overpaid players that's still available are mostly useless ones.

I'm not sure from your posts whether you follow the Yankees but if you did, you would know that they have sucked in the past several weeks, like they are regressing to the norm that was predicted for them in preseason.

Astute comment about free agency competition. All the more reason to look to the farm and make astute trades for prospects to build a winner, is my point.

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I agree - I think one of the biggest attractions about Cano right now and what makes it very difficult to let him go is, he's the next great Yankee bound for the Hall. With Jeter, the current face of the Yankees, fading away slowly, Cano is the next obvious choice to fill those shoes. AFAIK his image is clean for the most part (please correct me if I'm wrong) and follows that Yankee tradition.

Yeah, I really CANOt see them trading CANO! I am not so sure about how clean he is now, or how clean he has been in the past. One of his best buddies is Melky Cabrera, as you may know.

Originally Posted by canadiancreed

I'd feel bad for you but I can't see past the rage of seeing a team of supposed decent players keeping Miami and Houston company.

Please clarify this apparently interesting remark. You are outraged at the Yankees for being decent players who are failing? I think they had a good run in April but reality began settling in during May for these retreads.

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

You can't just release ARod

Bru, you are a smart guy but I think you don't understand the fundamental meaning of what a contract is.


The Yankees should try and trade him and agree to pay 50-60% of his contract yearly. But I don't think any teams would even be interested in that!

But then again, the organization knew the risks when they signed him. You underpay him for the first several years and then overpay him for the rest.

Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Mauer are going to go through the same thing.

When you give out those mega decade long contracts, you run the risk of having an albatross by the final 1/3 of the contract.

I don't think the Yankees are in that bad of shape.
Unfortunately they are in a position where they can NEVER go through rebuilding. The fan base simply will not allow it.
So instead your stuck with having to bring in established players who are expensive.
While other teams rely on a certain number of league minimums and arbitration players, the Yankees are either having to pay players 100% of their worth or overpay for them.

Thanks, but when I said "Tell A-Rod to take a hike. Cut him a discounted check for the balance," that meant the Yankees could release him, or trade him, but only after paying a SUBSTANTIAL portion of what's left of that dumb contract. By the way, I called it a dumb contract the day after it was signed. I cringe, though, to think that you are absolutely correct in this assessment: "Unfortunately they are in a position where they can NEVER go through rebuilding. The fan base simply will not allow it.
So instead your stuck with having to bring in established players who are expensive." As you may have perceived by now, I am not your typical Yankees fan.

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Why would trading Cano make any sense? These days teams value prospects more than before, so how much can the Yankees expect to get by trading half season of his service away?

In the mean time, the team is still in contention. Why give that up?

And players like Kevin Youkilis definitely isn't a problem. That's the kind of one-year stopgap measure the Yankees can afford when there are no better alternatives.

Think of the value they would get in return, though! But, I agree, Cano is not going ANYWHERE. Youk is OK, but obviously he is not long-term. To give Cashman some credit, none of the players I mentioned here are meant to be long-term with the exception of Cano.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I'm not sure from your posts whether you follow the Yankees but if you did, you would know that they have sucked in the past several weeks, like they are regressing to the norm that was predicted for them in preseason.

Astute comment about free agency competition. All the more reason to look to the farm and make astute trades for prospects to build a winner, is my point.

I am not sure why you want to use the performance of a couple of weeks to project the whole season. I guess that only make sense when the conclusion would match what you want.

Who these days get to trade for good prospects? Only trading away good young players can get you good prospects. What kind of trade do you have in mind that actually would be helpful?

As for developing better players out of the farm, every team tries that, and that's independent of the status a team is in.

[canadiancreed]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Please clarify this apparently interesting remark. You are outraged at the Yankees for being decent players who are failing? I think they had a good run in April but reality began settling in during May for these retreads.

Referring to the Jays as my annoyance in my statement.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

I am not sure why you want to use the performance of a couple of weeks to project the whole season. I guess that only make sense when the conclusion would match what you want.

Who these days get to trade for good prospects? Only trading away good young players can get you good prospects. What kind of trade do you have in mind that actually would be helpful?

As for developing better players out of the farm, every team tries that, and that's independent of the status a team is in.

Ah, you're probably right on all accounts. This is, if it's not apparent, a fan rant/therapy thread. They've really looked like crap recently, and they are stuck with the guys on hand. That is, the guys not on the DL which is where Teixeira seems to be heading to, again. And Youkilis' back problems are starting to look like a career-ender. True, who are you going to trade out of this batch?

One thing I'm sticking to, however. If given the choice between signing another guy like Youkilis or letting a young'un like David Adams play (.214 BA nothwithstanding), I'm giving Adams a good long look.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Heh. Typical Yankees fan. Can't take a little adversity, can you? Here's a towel for your crying face. Waaah!

So the Yankees take a few years off between championships. You have 27 of them my team has 3 yet I am not complaining about how bad we suck this year.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Heh. Typical Yankees fan. Can't take a little adversity, can you? Here's a towel for your crying face. Waaah!

Originally Posted by The Game

So the Yankees take a few years off between championships. You have 27 of them my team has 3 yet I am not complaining about how bad we suck this year.

I know. I mean, really. What a clown. Give him a new crying towel.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by The Game

So the Yankees take a few years off between championships. You have 27 of them my team has 3 yet I am not complaining about how bad we suck this year.

My rant is more around WANTING to enter into a rebuilding cycle, but knowing that Yankee ownership will not allow anything even close to resembling that. We need to implode this mess and start fresh, building around the good, young players we currently have (Gardner, Phelps, Robertson, Claiborne etc.).