Pet Peeve-Bullpens

[BIG17EASY]

Here's a screenshot from Baseball-Reference, which shows different columns for Save Opportunities and Save Situations. OOTP should either add the correct Save Situations stats column, or correctly display Save Opportunities.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Here's a screenshot from Baseball-Reference, which shows different columns for Save Opportunities and Save Situations. OOTP should either add the correct Save Situations stats column, or correctly display Save Opportunities.

*tongue in cheek* Just because it is on BBREF, that does not make it so.

Just as there is no official "hold" stat, there is no official definition of Save Opportunity vs Save Situation. That BBREF chooses to delineate the two is added information, and is all good, but that does not make OOTP's presentation incorrect.

When a RP enters a game the software does a check to determine if the RP enters with a lead, or not. If he is entering with a lead, a check determines if he would get a save if he completed the game without relinquishing the lead. If the criteria are met for the pitcher to get a save it is a save situation and it is also an opportunity for the pitcher to get a save, by standard English. However, there is no official MLB definition for either term. They can be differentiated, as BBREF does, or they can be considered the same thing, as OOTP does.

OOTP gets the save percentage calculations right, even though it displays the Save Opportunities differently from BBREF.

Would I like to have Save Opps differentiated from Save Situations? Sure! Gimmie more more more breakdowns...I will use them....mo numbers, mo better!

My point here (and on the back from vacation thread, where I first saw you post this) is that there is nothing "broken" here. The resulting calculations from the SaveOpp/SaveSit data are correct, and that is the important part of this statistic....however arguably important, or unimportant, save statistics actually are.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

*tongue in cheek* Just because it is on BBREF, that does not make it so.

Just as there is no official "hold" stat, there is no official definition of Save Opportunity vs Save Situation. That BBREF chooses to delineate the two is added information, and is all good, but that does not make OOTP's presentation incorrect.

When a RP enters a game the software does a check to determine if the RP enters with a lead, or not. If he is entering with a lead, a check determines if he would get a save if he completed the game without relinquishing the lead. If the criteria are met for the pitcher to get a save it is a save situation and it is also an opportunity for the pitcher to get a save, by standard English. However, there is no official MLB definition for either term. They can be differentiated, as BBREF does, or they can be considered the same thing, as OOTP does.

OOTP gets the save percentage calculations right, even though it displays the Save Opportunities differently from BBREF.

Would I like to have Save Opps differentiated from Save Situations? Sure! Gimmie more more more breakdowns...I will use them....mo numbers, mo better!

My point here (and on the back from vacation thread, where I first saw you post this) is that there is nothing "broken" here. The resulting calculations from the SaveOpp/SaveSit data are correct, and that is the important part of this statistic....however arguably important, or unimportant, save statistics actually are.

I never said you were wrong, so there was no need for the detailed explanation. As you point out, there's no official definition between opportunity and situation, so there's no right or wrong here. I'd like the game to mirror what Baseball-Reference has, since that's the most commonly used baseball stats database for the average fan.

Unless I'm wrong, I think most people assume (say what you want about assuming) that save percentage is calculated by dividing saves by save opportunities. So while OOTP's display may technically be correct depending on the perspective you take, it's also misleading if you view it from another perspective. Nothing wrong with asking Markus to make a change to clear up confusion, of which there is obviously some based on the OP and others (myself included) who posted early on in this thread.

[VanillaGorilla]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

I never said you were wrong, so there was no need for the detailed explanation.

These were pretty short posts, for me. The detail is minimal...lol.

Though I did quote your posts, I am also addressing the OP, who expressed frustration at the data he was seeing. The 'detail' in the explanation is an attempt to offer something more to the OP, and others, on his orginal observation. I did not intend my responses to be for your viewing, and your viewing only. It was also not my intention to be confrontational, in any way.

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

As you point out, there's no official definition between opportunity and situation, so there's no right or wrong here. I'd like the game to mirror what Baseball-Reference has, since that's the most commonly used baseball stats database for the average fan.

That is fine. As long as the data is correct and calculated correctly, I do not think there is a problem. This is quite different than the awful scoring of earned runs as unearned that turned into a forum dispute over what stats people should care about (which was not the point). I spent hours reviewing my data on that issue before I presented it. Then hours more responding to Marcus to make sure what I was seeing was an OOTP issue and not simply a user issue.

Lo and behold, Marcus found a code error that he thought had been previously corrected and issued a patch that corrected probably 99% of the earned run as unearned scoring errors that were taking place (another example of why this game totally rules!).

In that case the data was being recorded in error, which resulted in calculations based on that data to be in error. Here, we have the data being recorded correctly and the resultant calculated outputs being correct.

The point of the detail here (and this is a good discussion) is to alleviate the concerns of the OP and others that there is something broken with his bull pen stats and that what he sees in his BP stats are not reflective of the games he spends time playing.

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

Nothing wrong with asking Markus to make a change to clear up confusion, of which there is obviously some based on the OP and others (myself included) who posted early on in this thread.

I don't think there is anything wrong with asking, either. However, it is not a statistical output corrupting bug that is at issue here, which I believe is what was feared by previous posters. I think this confusion has been cleared up, and any priority for 'correcting' this display would properly be a low one.

Is a "situation" an "opportunity"? I guess it depends on how you look at it......

[JohnHoward]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

Is a "situation" an "opportunity"? I guess it depends on how you look at it......

Yes, okay, I think that I can buy that explanation. Thanks for the discussion!