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Old 06-07-2013, 04:25 PM   #41
ihatenames
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I keep hearing about 100 game suspensions. How can baseball suspend any of these guys if none of them ever tested positive for steroids? Braun did, but that was thrown out.
Under the new agreement they don't have to test positive if MLB can prove they took the drugs through other means.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:53 PM   #42
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Under the new agreement they don't have to test positive if MLB can prove they took the drugs through other means.
I think the players and the players association will flood MLB with lawsuits. It's doubtful in my mind that MLB could escape the charge that they set out to find evidence with the objective of finding guilt. They would have to have more than one source of documentation other than Anthony Bosch.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:50 PM   #43
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What about the use of amphetamines? It is reported that amphetamine use in MLB was rampant from the early 60's up until the late eighties (when steroids became more popular) as a performane enhancing substance.
They were taking a lot more than greenies in the 60's and 70's. And it's a bit disingenuous to compare amphetamines to energy drinks. If they were comparable, people would stop making and taking amphetamines.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:58 PM   #44
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Because they were all cheaters doesn't mean we should forgive them and let them in the hall......regardless of whether the playing field was level or not, they ALL gave baseball a huge black eye and anyone proven to be a user ought to banned for life....those that can't be proven, but everyone pretty much agrees they imbibed, keep out of the hall......in fact, I'd be for exempted any player from the era for consideration and make a special 'Roids Wing for all their plaques to hang in......then lock the doors and turn out the lights and don't let anybody in......we could also make all Encyclopedias end in 1992.......
Geez, guilt by association and completely whitewashing history in one fell swoop ... gotta love it.
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Old 06-08-2013, 06:07 PM   #45
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They were taking a lot more than greenies in the 60's and 70's. And it's a bit disingenuous to compare amphetamines to energy drinks. If they were comparable, people would stop making and taking amphetamines.
I merely trying to articulate a reason for why, in the post I responded to, a "blind eye" has been cast toward the historical use of amphetamines in baseball. Stimulants of varying potency, addictiveness and legality are still comparable; the word means "able to be compared" and they share something in common.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #46
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With all due respect, the amphetamines taken by major league players are far more powerful than any energy drink available to the common public via legal means. Since 1971, amphetamines have been classified as a controlled substance in the U.S. and are completely illegal in many industrialized countries throughout the world.

As far as its standing in baseball, under a MLB policy established in 2007, a positive test result for amphetamine use will result in mandatory additional testing. A second offense triggers a 25-game suspension, and the punishment increases to 80 games for a third failed test.

While the casual fan may not perceive amphetamine use in baseball to be as egregious as the abuse of steroids, the mere fact that MLB has chosen to adopt the policy highlighted above indicates that amphetamines are problematic. Moreover, there are some individuals within the game that believe that it is the crackdown on amphetamines – not steroids, that has impacted the declining offensive numbers in baseball.

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Old 06-10-2013, 01:38 PM   #47
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Yeah, but Bud basically promoted the use of roids until it blew up in his face. Balls were wound so tight they were basically superballs, the strike zone was a joke and breaking Roger's record was marketing 101 for years. Too bad big head had to ruin all the fun for Bud and all the sportswriters that couldn't get enough of McGwire and Sosa.
If the suggestion is that the home run record chase was necessary to revitalize baseball, the evidence indicates it wasn't. Both attendance and revenue were already recovering from the damage (I'd post exact numbers but I'm not on my normal computer at the moment). The McGuire-Sosa home run race certainly helped, and probably made the memory of the strike disappear faster, but it's not as if baseball had been flat through the 1995-97 seasons before McGuire-Sosa battle came along.
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Old 06-10-2013, 04:11 PM   #48
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It was illegal nationally, how MLB treated it is largely irrelevant in terms of the right/wrongness of it, IMO.

Now, that said, if you believe Jose Canseco's estimates that 80% of the league was using, then the best of the best of the users would still be HOFers. Whether or not something bothers me, or the "is this right or wrong?" question is completely separate from the "is this player a HOFer?" question. I mean, segregation was clearly, horrifyingly wrong, but I wouldn't argue that Babe Ruth isn't a HOFer.
But since many baseball players drank beer during prohibition doesn't that mean that they were breaking the rules. MLB didn't do anything about it and players broke the national law
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:30 PM   #49
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Get Behind Me, Satan!....You Blasphemer!........

I joke, but saying baseball is just a game, means I've wasted a whole big chunk of my life.......

That's like saying Beethoven just made noises....
Yeah but saying those are sacred and can't be replaced would be like saying we all have to listen to Beethoven and Metallica's songs don't count.
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Old 06-10-2013, 10:34 PM   #50
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I keep hearing about 100 game suspensions. How can baseball suspend any of these guys if none of them ever tested positive for steroids? Braun did, but that was thrown out.
The 100 games is based on the basis of them calling proof of use through BioGenesis the "first offense" and then the players lying to them when they were asked about it a "second offense". So they are basically giving them the "second offense" suspension.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:07 PM   #51
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The 100 games is based on the basis of them calling proof of use through BioGenesis the "first offense" and then the players lying to them when they were asked about it a "second offense". So they are basically giving them the "second offense" suspension.
Never going to happen. They might publicly embarrass certain players but lawsuits would fly if they try to backdoor 100 game suspensions.
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Old 06-10-2013, 11:38 PM   #52
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Yeah but saying those are sacred and can't be replaced would be like saying we all have to listen to Beethoven and Metallica's songs don't count.
Now that you mention it...
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:26 AM   #53
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Moreover, there are some individuals within the game that believe that it is the crackdown on amphetamines – not steroids, that has impacted the declining offensive numbers in baseball.
I'd say the historical trend towards more and more strikeouts and less and less of everything else has something to do with it. Plus, after a decade of every new park adding offense to the league, we've actually swung in the opposite direction with the last several new parks.

I mean, on the first point, you could argue that a decline in PED usage is related but a.) I don't actually believe that PED usage has declined much b.) the period of greatest offense in baseball history was the 1930's, when people were certainly taking uppers but weight lifting still had a massive stigma attached to it in regards to baseball and c.) the last dead ball era, 1962-1968, was in all likelihood the period where PED usage in baseball was at its all time peak as people were taking not only strong amphetamines but steroids that were designed for horses since no one really knew what the long-term consequences were.

But yeah, every year since around 1890 or whenever the modern baseball rules were stabilized, the strikeout rate has increased at a pretty constant rate unless there was a massive outside influence affecting it. With strikeouts basically being the direct opposite of every other outcome possible, it's inevitable that offense is going to decline. 7 of the highest 8 K/9 rates in baseball occurred in the past 7 seasons. The 20 highest K/9 rates are also the last 20 seasons. Then you get some mid 60's dead ball years mixed in with some seasons from the 80's.

(Edit: There's also the historical trend towards higher fielding percentages. 2013 being on pace to set the record once again. I'm not sure if defensive efficiency follows a similar trendline or not.)
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Old 06-11-2013, 11:39 AM   #54
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755
61
3000
500
These numbers used to mean something, I grew up with this numbers, like a bible verser Maris 61, Aaron 755, they were sacred. The likes of Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, A-Rod made those sacred numbers into a joke. They blaspheme the records we grew up with
Aaron: Amphetamines, possible steroids as well


The "sacred" numbers aren't as sacred as you think, is my point.
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Old 06-11-2013, 01:54 PM   #55
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Old 06-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #56
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Never going to happen. They might publicly embarrass certain players but lawsuits would fly if they try to backdoor 100 game suspensions.
Not likely no, but but threatening 100 certainly makes 50 easier to swallow.
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Old 07-09-2013, 10:14 AM   #57
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catchers need to quit blocking the plate...it's illegal anyway, if they haven't got the ball yet....but umps don't enforce it......and even if they've got the ball, they are stupid to stand there like a blocking dummy...get to the side and use your glove and off-hand to apply a tag
As a catcher, you don't always have the option of swiping a guy with a glove. You have to look at the ball as it's coming in and the runner is not in your line of sight. When I caught, I would block the plate and I expected to get nailed. It is actually hard to block the plate and retrieve the ball, unless the ball is thrown perfectly, which is rare.

I think with Rose/Fosse, people criticize Rose because it was an All Star Game and Rose played it like the game counted.
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Old 07-09-2013, 01:09 PM   #58
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Blocking the plate was a lot different in that era, too. In the 70's or 80's you had catchers who would stand halfway up the third base line and basically hug the guy running home while waiting for the throw, which doesn't happen anymore.
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Old 07-23-2013, 05:10 PM   #59
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More and more guys getting caught juicing its steroids era all over again they should jut lifetime banned them. Scare everyone from doing it
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Old 07-24-2013, 02:33 PM   #60
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More and more guys getting caught juicing its steroids era all over again they should jut lifetime banned them. Scare everyone from doing it
Yeah, and those crazy HR numbers are back, too!

Oh, wait, they aren't? So maybe roids didn't have everything to do with the power spike in the 90s?
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