The entire hiring/firing of Personnel/coaching staff needs a major rework

I_Got_Wood_34 · 05-10-2013, 11:56 AM

Extremely tedious for people playing a major league.

I'm all about challenge, deep, complexity, etc.

But this isn't deep or challenging, it just requires massive amounts of back and forth, lots of memorization, lots of note taking, etc. etc. etc.

I had to spend literally 2-3 hours just promoting/demoting coaches, then accidently promoting the wrong coach to the wrong position, then going back, firing a coach, figuring out where i promoted the coach, etc. etc. etc.

On top of that, you have to wait around for days to hear back from a coach, while the other decent ones get hired. Then you are left with a massive hole.

Then the computer starts hiring personel you didn't want etc etc etc

It's good to have a coaching staff...and I'm glad each coach has several important rating...but the entire coaching staff system needs a massive rework.

cavebutter · 05-10-2013, 12:16 PM

I hear you, though one man's tedium is another's fascinating complexity. I agree that some aspects need work, particularly giving us the ability to offer a position to someone without having to fire the incumbent.

byzeil · 05-10-2013, 12:20 PM

I agree. I like the idea of coaches but, to me, the implementation makes it more of a pain to manage them than it is worth it. I wold use them but I don't currently because of the current implementation.

I think you should be able to offer a job to more than one coach at a time with the first one accepting getting the job and the other offer withdrawn. When I have an opening and there are 2 or 3 good candidates I can offer the job to one of them. While he is deciding the others take other jobs and then I loose out on the negotiations for the guy I was trying to sign and I end up with no one.

IRL I could talk to all the candidates and I could put offers on the table with the caveat that I am talking to more than one person and the first one to accept will get the job.

I'd also like to be able to negotiate with a potential coach and only fire my current coach if I can reach an agreement with the FA coach. Someone very good might hit the market and I would like to significantly upgrade the position. Right now I have to fire my current guy and hope I can get the FA coach. I think IRL this happens though teams will keep the negotiations on the QT because if the guy who might loose his job might quit or his performance might suffer. I can do something similar with players. I may have a very good catcher but an all-star hits the FA market. Even though I have a catcher under contract I can go out and sign the FA catcher then I can trade/cut/demote my catcher if I sign the FA catcher. I don't have to dump my catcher before I can pursue another one.

Also, unless I'm missing it, I would like to be able to see all my coaches at all levels on a single screen all at the same time. Then maybe have the ability to drag and drop them to other positions similar to how the lineups/depth charts work. I'm not sure about v14 but in v13 I had to keep jumping between my different levels to see all my coaches and then to promote/demote them. A single screen would be very nice.

ezpkns34 · 05-10-2013, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by byzeil

Also, unless I'm missing it, I would like to be able to see all my coaches at all levels on a single screen all at the same time. Then maybe have the ability to drag and drop them to other positions similar to how the lineups/depth charts work. I'm not sure about v14 but in v13 I had to keep jumping between my different levels to see all my coaches and then to promote/demote them. A single screen would be very nice.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...s-display.html

JohnHoward · 05-10-2013, 01:45 PM

Tedious? Hardly.

Now, Campaign for North Africa, that was tedious. Only completed one game ever and my friends swore they would never play it again.

tonezone · 05-10-2013, 04:09 PM

I agree with this thought completely.

Keeping track of who you offered a position to would be much easier if at the very least in the pending offers tab it would say "offered job of pitching coach for AAA ______ so and so," instead all it says is hitting coach. Well if i am hiring 3 hitting coaches it becomes a mess.

The whole coaching system is an after-thought with little thought put into it.

As i have said before...what is the benefit of hiring a LEGENDARY coach? There should be one. But my roster is the same with all LEGENDARY coaches as it is with GOOD coaches. You should be rewarded for paying top buck for top coaches.

Whole system = needs revampment.

The Wolf · 05-10-2013, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

Tedious? Hardly.

Now, Campaign for North Africa, that was tedious. Only completed one game ever and my friends swore they would never play it again.

1200 hours? Seriously? At forty hours a week that's over half a year!

SunDevil · 05-10-2013, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

1200 hours? Seriously? At forty hours a week that's over half a year!

Sounds like I found a new board game.

Cras · 05-10-2013, 05:37 PM

This part of the game needs some love. I have talked about it before, but there needs some updates, upgrades, expansion on this area.

If there is going to be coaches, there needs to be, at least on the major league level, more positions. There needs to be 1B and 3B coaches, since once and future managers tend to be in these positions.

For this to make sense then, I need the ability to go and sign some other guy's pitching coach, 3b coach, or whatever to be my manager. Have some sort of compensation amount attached to it, see FM on how that is done.

A screen that shows all the coaches on one screen would be nice. Very nice. Make it real easy to move guys up, let guys go.

And have a button that has the game go and try and fill the positions on its own. I wouldnt use it, but I do see the use for it.

And when I create a new team, do not populate it with coaches. The team has no players on the roster, it should also have no members of the coaching staff. I want those guys to come from inside my world, not randomly created dudes.

Make established big league guys very very resistant to taking minor league jobs, and jobs outside their job preference. I had a super star scout, maxed out ratings, and I let him walk. Actually, I forgot to check his contract, since he is on a totally different page in the game, was not always the case, so I do tend to forget to make sure his contract is renewed, but anyway, he walked. And of course, as the game does, if you let a guy's contract expire, he will never work for you again. Even if you are willing to pay him more money than he would ever dream of demanding, he will never work for you again.

So I check on him later that season to see which team is lucky enough to have him as their scout.....answer is none. Someone hired him to be their bench coach instead. Ok then.

I had a manager with a great track record. He won many a world series for me, but it was time for him to move on, so I let him go. Result? The guy bounces around for a near decade managing A and Rookie level clubs.

No this should not happen. When managers do good, they should have a popularity, or a reputation attribute attached to them that grows, and big name successful managers should then get first looks at vacant major league jobs. And the way it works now, once he signs down there he is locked away from the major league clubs for that time. I have noticed now that guys with skill will be asking for 1 year deals more often to work in the minors....that works, sort of. Still is a band aid. Clubs need to be able to sign other clubs personnel as long as they are offering a promotion. A AAA manager that has serious skill should not be stuck there. A club with a big league managerial vacancy should be allowed to go and offer him the job and get him out of his contract.

The Wolf · 05-10-2013, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Sounds like I found a new board game.

Try this one instead:

Slitherine Ltd

Computerized, customizable, a 40,000+ hex map, 11 different campaign games and 1,000+ units.

elfsutton · 05-10-2013, 06:18 PM

Updating this would be nice, but to be honest, still cannot see where coaching makes a difference except for the having to go out and worry about them contract-wise/signing them if they leave/retire. I have tried it both ways and have not noticed any appreciable differnce. Unlike scouting, which offers different options when you use it or dont, coaches just seem to take up space.

GMLoophole · 05-11-2013, 09:52 AM

Quote:

And when I create a new team, do not populate it with coaches. The team has no players on the roster, it should also have no members of the coaching staff. I want those guys to come from inside my world, not randomly created dudes.

I usually create new leagues to hold the MLB teams and then delete the default MLB setup. But that leaves me with eleventy zillion fake coaches that I can't easily get rid of. I usually make small shell leagues and individually delete the coaches from the few teams in the new league, but even that's tedious. A one-click deletion tool like we have for players would be great.

goalieump413 · 05-11-2013, 02:28 PM

The whole point of this game, pardon the incredible grasp of the obvious, is to simulate the game of baseball as accurately as possible. So, wouldn't it make sense that your personnel would be one of your GM's first responsibilities? For those who contend that coaches don't make much of a difference, that's troubling.

In my current offline career, I fired half of my minor league coaches and hired new ones with better ratings, predicting better player development results. These are offseason moves, so I have no results yet. But the method of hiring and firing is cumbersome, forcing you to make a hole before filling it in. I'd prefer to shop for, and compare coaches to see if making a move would help.

The Wolf · 05-11-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

A one-click deletion tool like we have for players would be great.

And is versions overdue.

The Game · 05-11-2013, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elfsutton

Updating this would be nice, but to be honest, still cannot see where coaching makes a difference except for the having to go out and worry about them contract-wise/signing them if they leave/retire. I have tried it both ways and have not noticed any appreciable differnce. Unlike scouting, which offers different options when you use it or dont, coaches just seem to take up space.

If you have terrible players it doesn't matter. I just like hiring and firing of my favorite players who have become coaches and managers.

bleachercreature · 06-08-2013, 11:49 PM

It used to be every year (now it's down to every two or three) I would come in here and ask a simple question. It appears it has been answered by what I have read.

Is it possible to release all coaches and have them sign with other teams ( free agency for coaches in a sense). Years ago, there was a three or five day coaches signing period before the inaugural draft that was taken away.

It would be nice to see this feature returned, or something similar. I want to create my own universe, that includes signing my own coaches and other personnel.

Also, if I recall correctly, when you assume a role your name is entered into that position. For example, if I take over as G.M. of the Mets the game replaces the Mets G.M. with a character in my name. Why I can't I be G.M. of the Mets and essentially be Sandy Alderson, or whomever their G.M. is now?

Painmantle · 06-09-2013, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnHoward

Tedious? Hardly.

Now, Campaign for North Africa, that was tedious. Only completed one game ever and my friends swore they would never play it again.

GMT Games - A World at War

My Brother an I have played A World At War 6 times. It combines Advanced Third Reich And Rising Sun into one game with both the European and Pacific Theaters. It takes us damn near a week to set it up the first time!

Although I must say that game looks very intriguing, but good luck finding 8-10 people who would dare try it !

Déjà Bru · 06-09-2013, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goalieump413

The whole point of this game, pardon the incredible grasp of the obvious, is to simulate the game of baseball as accurately as possible. So, wouldn't it make sense that your personnel would be one of your GM's first responsibilities? For those who contend that coaches don't make much of a difference, that's troubling.

I agree with this, as the way it should be. Unfortunately, the reality is that it is a tedious and boring aspect of the game. Basically, you try to hire the guys with the bluest of ratings, eventually get there by manipulations, and then forget about them until they retire (or leave because you forgot to renew them). You never get to really "know" them at all.

This aspect of the game will not improve until there is more communication and interaction with coaches on all levels. What comes to mind as an example is a message from your Double-A manager, recommending the promotion of this or that player, followed by an action button: "Agree? Disagree? Discuss further / Ask for scouting report."

VanillaGorilla · 06-09-2013, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I agree with this, as the way it should be. Unfortunately, the reality is that it is a tedious and boring aspect of the game. Basically, you try to hire the guys with the bluest of ratings, eventually get there by manipulations, and then forget about them until they retire (or leave because you forgot to renew them). You never get to really "know" them at all.

This aspect of the game will not improve until there is more communication and interaction with coaches on all levels. What comes to mind as an example is a message from your Double-A manager, recommending the promotion of this or that player, followed by an action button: "Agree? Disagree? Discuss further / Ask for scouting report."

Something as simple as a note from a coach who has an expiring contract saying he wants to stay with the organization would be a big help. Maybe the coach doesn't want to stay, but if he does, a little reminder would be helpful for us silly human users.

Bowtie · 06-09-2013, 10:46 PM

I agree with this. The coaching system in OOTP does need to be shown more love. Since there have been several very good points made in this thread, I have submitted this issue to Markus in the Feature forum with a link to this thread so that hopefully we can get this part of the game revamped in OOTP 15.

For our records, this Feature Request submitted as PT-4857.

05-10-2013, 11:56 AM	#1
I_Got_Wood_34 Banned Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 188 Infractions: 0/1 (4)	The entire hiring/firing of Personnel/coaching staff needs a major rework Extremely tedious for people playing a major league. I'm all about challenge, deep, complexity, etc. But this isn't deep or challenging, it just requires massive amounts of back and forth, lots of memorization, lots of note taking, etc. etc. etc. I had to spend literally 2-3 hours just promoting/demoting coaches, then accidently promoting the wrong coach to the wrong position, then going back, firing a coach, figuring out where i promoted the coach, etc. etc. etc. On top of that, you have to wait around for days to hear back from a coach, while the other decent ones get hired. Then you are left with a massive hole. Then the computer starts hiring personel you didn't want etc etc etc It's good to have a coaching staff...and I'm glad each coach has several important rating...but the entire coaching staff system needs a massive rework.

05-10-2013, 12:16 PM	#2
cavebutter All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,163	The entire hiring/firing of Personnel/coaching staff needs a major rework I hear you, though one man's tedium is another's fascinating complexity. I agree that some aspects need work, particularly giving us the ability to offer a position to someone without having to fire the incumbent. __________________ MySQL, MyStruggle - A self-indulgent blog about my attempts to roll my own MySQL Database with OOTP Logo Gallery

05-10-2013, 01:45 PM	#5
JohnHoward All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 624	Tedious? Hardly. Now, Campaign for North Africa, that was tedious. Only completed one game ever and my friends swore they would never play it again. Last edited by JohnHoward; 05-10-2013 at 01:45 PM. Reason: spelling

05-10-2013, 05:37 PM	#9
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: LEO Posts: 3,789	This part of the game needs some love. I have talked about it before, but there needs some updates, upgrades, expansion on this area. If there is going to be coaches, there needs to be, at least on the major league level, more positions. There needs to be 1B and 3B coaches, since once and future managers tend to be in these positions. For this to make sense then, I need the ability to go and sign some other guy's pitching coach, 3b coach, or whatever to be my manager. Have some sort of compensation amount attached to it, see FM on how that is done. A screen that shows all the coaches on one screen would be nice. Very nice. Make it real easy to move guys up, let guys go. And have a button that has the game go and try and fill the positions on its own. I wouldnt use it, but I do see the use for it. And when I create a new team, do not populate it with coaches. The team has no players on the roster, it should also have no members of the coaching staff. I want those guys to come from inside my world, not randomly created dudes. Make established big league guys very very resistant to taking minor league jobs, and jobs outside their job preference. I had a super star scout, maxed out ratings, and I let him walk. Actually, I forgot to check his contract, since he is on a totally different page in the game, was not always the case, so I do tend to forget to make sure his contract is renewed, but anyway, he walked. And of course, as the game does, if you let a guy's contract expire, he will never work for you again. Even if you are willing to pay him more money than he would ever dream of demanding, he will never work for you again. So I check on him later that season to see which team is lucky enough to have him as their scout.....answer is none. Someone hired him to be their bench coach instead. Ok then. I had a manager with a great track record. He won many a world series for me, but it was time for him to move on, so I let him go. Result? The guy bounces around for a near decade managing A and Rookie level clubs. No this should not happen. When managers do good, they should have a popularity, or a reputation attribute attached to them that grows, and big name successful managers should then get first looks at vacant major league jobs. And the way it works now, once he signs down there he is locked away from the major league clubs for that time. I have noticed now that guys with skill will be asking for 1 year deals more often to work in the minors....that works, sort of. Still is a band aid. Clubs need to be able to sign other clubs personnel as long as they are offering a promotion. A AAA manager that has serious skill should not be stuck there. A club with a big league managerial vacancy should be allowed to go and offer him the job and get him out of his contract. __________________ The Chicago White Sox 1906, 1917, 2005 World Series Champions 1900, 1901, 1906, 1917, 1919, 1959, 2005 American League Champions 2000, 2005, 2008 American League Central Division Champions 1983, 1993 American League West Division Champions OOTP \| Orbiter \| SSMS \| FSX \| LoL \| MLP:FIM!

05-10-2013, 06:18 PM	#11
elfsutton All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Cadiz, Ohio Posts: 946	Updating this would be nice, but to be honest, still cannot see where coaching makes a difference except for the having to go out and worry about them contract-wise/signing them if they leave/retire. I have tried it both ways and have not noticed any appreciable differnce. Unlike scouting, which offers different options when you use it or dont, coaches just seem to take up space. __________________ Pittsburgh Pirates, Cleveland Indians fan Rewriting Cubs History, a Dynasty Report Baseball History, What Might Have Been Rewriting Cubs History Poll

05-10-2013, 12:20 PM	#3
byzeil Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: NJ, US Posts: 2,007	I agree. I like the idea of coaches but, to me, the implementation makes it more of a pain to manage them than it is worth it. I wold use them but I don't currently because of the current implementation. I think you should be able to offer a job to more than one coach at a time with the first one accepting getting the job and the other offer withdrawn. When I have an opening and there are 2 or 3 good candidates I can offer the job to one of them. While he is deciding the others take other jobs and then I loose out on the negotiations for the guy I was trying to sign and I end up with no one. IRL I could talk to all the candidates and I could put offers on the table with the caveat that I am talking to more than one person and the first one to accept will get the job. I'd also like to be able to negotiate with a potential coach and only fire my current coach if I can reach an agreement with the FA coach. Someone very good might hit the market and I would like to significantly upgrade the position. Right now I have to fire my current guy and hope I can get the FA coach. I think IRL this happens though teams will keep the negotiations on the QT because if the guy who might loose his job might quit or his performance might suffer. I can do something similar with players. I may have a very good catcher but an all-star hits the FA market. Even though I have a catcher under contract I can go out and sign the FA catcher then I can trade/cut/demote my catcher if I sign the FA catcher. I don't have to dump my catcher before I can pursue another one. Also, unless I'm missing it, I would like to be able to see all my coaches at all levels on a single screen all at the same time. Then maybe have the ability to drag and drop them to other positions similar to how the lineups/depth charts work. I'm not sure about v14 but in v13 I had to keep jumping between my different levels to see all my coaches and then to promote/demote them. A single screen would be very nice.

05-10-2013, 04:09 PM	#6
tonezone Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 29	I agree with this thought completely. Keeping track of who you offered a position to would be much easier if at the very least in the pending offers tab it would say "offered job of pitching coach for AAA ______ so and so," instead all it says is hitting coach. Well if i am hiring 3 hitting coaches it becomes a mess. The whole coaching system is an after-thought with little thought put into it. As i have said before...what is the benefit of hiring a LEGENDARY coach? There should be one. But my roster is the same with all LEGENDARY coaches as it is with GOOD coaches. You should be rewarded for paying top buck for top coaches. Whole system = needs revampment.

05-11-2013, 02:28 PM	#13
goalieump413 All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 765	The whole point of this game, pardon the incredible grasp of the obvious, is to simulate the game of baseball as accurately as possible. So, wouldn't it make sense that your personnel would be one of your GM's first responsibilities? For those who contend that coaches don't make much of a difference, that's troubling. In my current offline career, I fired half of my minor league coaches and hired new ones with better ratings, predicting better player development results. These are offseason moves, so I have no results yet. But the method of hiring and firing is cumbersome, forcing you to make a hole before filling it in. I'd prefer to shop for, and compare coaches to see if making a move would help.

06-08-2013, 11:49 PM	#16
bleachercreature Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Jersey Posts: 403	starting my coaching nonsense again It used to be every year (now it's down to every two or three) I would come in here and ask a simple question. It appears it has been answered by what I have read. Is it possible to release all coaches and have them sign with other teams ( free agency for coaches in a sense). Years ago, there was a three or five day coaches signing period before the inaugural draft that was taken away. It would be nice to see this feature returned, or something similar. I want to create my own universe, that includes signing my own coaches and other personnel. Also, if I recall correctly, when you assume a role your name is entered into that position. For example, if I take over as G.M. of the Mets the game replaces the Mets G.M. with a character in my name. Why I can't I be G.M. of the Mets and essentially be Sandy Alderson, or whomever their G.M. is now?

06-09-2013, 10:46 PM	#20
Bowtie All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,315	I agree with this. The coaching system in OOTP does need to be shown more love. Since there have been several very good points made in this thread, I have submitted this issue to Markus in the Feature forum with a link to this thread so that hopefully we can get this part of the game revamped in OOTP 15. For our records, this Feature Request submitted as PT-4857. __________________