Trade Logic

mventres · 06-08-2013, 03:43 AM

Firstly, I am very new to the game, so I may not be aware of settings/etc...just a notice

It's pretty evident that "time" has no meaning on making trade decisions. For instance, I just simmed a few games and saw PITT trade Neal to CGY for 6th overall + decent prospect. There is no logic I can find to support why any team in a "win now" mode would make such a move. Hence, I suggest some internal value per team to indicate whether the team is "rebuilding" "up and coming" "status quo" "go for it" "shed salary" etc so stupid trades like this, which are the downfall of most sim games do not happen. By all means, make the logic more advanced that the simple strategy above, which of course should adapt based on team needs/player age/etc.

mventres · 06-08-2013, 03:48 AM

Also, I just saw Boston trade Dougie Hamilton + 3rd rounder to PITT for Murray! WTF?

Not only does this make zero sense, Boston and PITT are unlikely to make any major moves with each other due to being "at the same place as a team" and "directly competing"...serious serious serious upgrades to trade logic is needed or the sim will suck...

landru22 · 06-08-2013, 10:57 AM

I have a theory on this, but no real evidence to back it up. It seems like these head scratching trades often involve the Pittsburgh Penguins. If the players the Pens added at the trade deadline in real life were actually in Pittsburgh at the start of the season they would have either been above or too close to the salary cap. In FHM, these players ARE there at the beginning of the season so they must trade off some salary. I've seen Neal, Malkin, Murray, Iginla, and others go in trades in various leagues I have started. Most of these trades made little to no hockey ability sense.

Robert11729 · 06-08-2013, 05:34 PM

I agree with the poster trade logic makes no sense right now and to add more to it at least to me it seems almost impossible to make trades ive tried to get heatley from the wild whos on the trading block and ive offered them #1 picks plus some decent prospects to no avail it always gets turned down. Meanwhile if I offer a 5 star prospect straight up for him it gets accepted. I know this will be fixed so im not too concerned

.

Airchallenged · 06-08-2013, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert11729

I agree with the poster trade logic makes no sense right now and to add more to it at least to me it seems almost impossible to make trades ive tried to get heatley from the wild whos on the trading block and ive offered them #1 picks plus some decent prospects to no avail it always gets turned down. Meanwhile if I offer a 5 star prospect straight up for him it gets accepted. I know this will be fixed so im not too concerned

.

Your own picks don't seem to mean diddly-squat to the AI. They take other AI's picks into account but not yours. I've tried similar things with two almost equal players (relatively same ages, abilities, cash hit). I've added everything from a 7th-2nd in an attempt to equalize the trade to no avail.

Jeff and others have said that the trade system will be one of the things improved in later builds as they work out player development and the like.

umwoz · 06-09-2013, 04:07 PM

I stopped playing around the 3rd release because the trade logic made it impossible for me to enjoy the game enough to really get into it and help the beta process. I'm waiting for it to be at least a shade realistic before I hop back in.

stephen · 06-12-2013, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mventres

Firstly, I am very new to the game, so I may not be aware of settings/etc...just a notice

It's pretty evident that "time" has no meaning on making trade decisions. For instance, I just simmed a few games and saw PITT trade Neal to CGY for 6th overall + decent prospect. .

Gay. I couldnt get him for anything less than a 1st.

Trades are a headache at the moment. I've been letting many of my guys go for nothing just to get rid of them. The only player for player trade ive been able to make is kipper for phaneuf.

TavesSoul · 06-12-2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by umwoz

I stopped playing around the 3rd release because the trade logic made it impossible for me to enjoy the game enough to really get into it and help the beta process. I'm waiting for it to be at least a shade realistic before I hop back in.

Yep, this has sadly also been the case for me as well. I can't enjoy the testing if I can't make ANY trades, but see everyone else stealing guys for nothing.

mventres · 06-15-2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TavesSoul

Yep, this has sadly also been the case for me as well. I can't enjoy the testing if I can't make ANY trades, but see everyone else stealing guys for nothing.

Very true...trades and realistic (and fair) decisions made by the computer GMs is often/usually a make or break issue in these games. I hope they get it right! Specifically the things I hope they nail are:

1. Longer-term planning for trades, contracts and drafting. Too often sim games make short-sighted decisions that end up destroying the team within 2-3 seasons...usually wrt cap issues.

2. Computer teams make realistic offers! This works hand-in hand with #1, but would likely mean some sort of "team phase" setting such as "rebuilding", "go for it now", "make playoffs", "cash strapped", etc. Then, they would do their best to fulfill that goal (or combination of goals).

3. The coolest thing I could see in such a game would be interactive trade negotiations that would resemble something like those "make your own adventure" books. In this scheme you would receive/send an offer and can select a set of replies ("no thanks", "accepted", "not enough", "more draft picks", "I want a roster player", "too much of a cap hit", etc), in which the opposing computer GM will respond with an updated offer, or simply "that's too much, you have my final offer" or to limit constantly bugging GMs "sorry, you keep bugging me about this I am not interested anymore". In the case a player on the trade block interests a number of teams you can have "I have better offers, care to bid higher?" - in which the other GM will need some sort of estimate on the veracity of the reply (i.e., that there is actually a bidding war).

4. #3 can be extended to contract talks too, but of course much simpler "interested in a home-town discount", etc...

I think these are actually pretty doable if the coding is thought out well, since it's about laying out logical decision trees with some uncertainty involved...thoughts?

dejaqwho · 07-07-2013, 05:13 PM

Corey Cowick 23 year old 1/1 star player traded for Danny Heatley (who has a wrong contract compared to real life, just a 2 year 5.4mill) Heatley is a 4+ star palyer.

No one would trade him on that contract for Corey Cowick.

06-08-2013, 03:43 AM	#1
mventres Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 6	Trade Logic Firstly, I am very new to the game, so I may not be aware of settings/etc...just a notice It's pretty evident that "time" has no meaning on making trade decisions. For instance, I just simmed a few games and saw PITT trade Neal to CGY for 6th overall + decent prospect. There is no logic I can find to support why any team in a "win now" mode would make such a move. Hence, I suggest some internal value per team to indicate whether the team is "rebuilding" "up and coming" "status quo" "go for it" "shed salary" etc so stupid trades like this, which are the downfall of most sim games do not happen. By all means, make the logic more advanced that the simple strategy above, which of course should adapt based on team needs/player age/etc.

06-08-2013, 03:48 AM	#2
mventres Bat Boy Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 6	Also, I just saw Boston trade Dougie Hamilton + 3rd rounder to PITT for Murray! WTF? Not only does this make zero sense, Boston and PITT are unlikely to make any major moves with each other due to being "at the same place as a team" and "directly competing"...serious serious serious upgrades to trade logic is needed or the sim will suck...

06-08-2013, 10:57 AM	#3
landru22 Major Leagues Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 474	I have a theory on this, but no real evidence to back it up. It seems like these head scratching trades often involve the Pittsburgh Penguins. If the players the Pens added at the trade deadline in real life were actually in Pittsburgh at the start of the season they would have either been above or too close to the salary cap. In FHM, these players ARE there at the beginning of the season so they must trade off some salary. I've seen Neal, Malkin, Murray, Iginla, and others go in trades in various leagues I have started. Most of these trades made little to no hockey ability sense.

06-08-2013, 05:34 PM	#4
Robert11729 Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2013 Location: Deer Park, NY Posts: 93	I agree with the poster trade logic makes no sense right now and to add more to it at least to me it seems almost impossible to make trades ive tried to get heatley from the wild whos on the trading block and ive offered them #1 picks plus some decent prospects to no avail it always gets turned down. Meanwhile if I offer a 5 star prospect straight up for him it gets accepted. I know this will be fixed so im not too concerned .

06-09-2013, 04:07 PM	#6
umwoz Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 74	I stopped playing around the 3rd release because the trade logic made it impossible for me to enjoy the game enough to really get into it and help the beta process. I'm waiting for it to be at least a shade realistic before I hop back in.

07-07-2013, 05:13 PM	#10
dejaqwho Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2013 Posts: 59	Corey Cowick 23 year old 1/1 star player traded for Danny Heatley (who has a wrong contract compared to real life, just a 2 year 5.4mill) Heatley is a 4+ star palyer. No one would trade him on that contract for Corey Cowick.