Still Don't Understand Scouting - Page 2

injury log · 05-14-2013, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I don't like to get impatient or angry, but this has been completely ignored

First, this wasn't 'completely ignored'; Markus gave you quite a detailed reply. Second, did you file a bug report, as Markus requested? Markus doesn't have time to read every thread on the General forum, but he does read all of the bug reports.

byzeil · 05-14-2013, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No. Not without knowing your settings and having a look at your league files. Please post about this in the bug reports forum and upload the league files and mention the name of the file in the post.

It does seem you have a legitimate issue here but if you haven't done what Marcus asked you to do above, posted in the Bug Reports forum and uploaded files [I looked fairly quickly and didn't see anything], I don't think you can complain too much about feeling that the issue is being "completely ignored". Do everything you can and if nothing is done then sure....

PSUColonel · 05-14-2013, 04:16 PM

He did respond, but nothing has happened. I am NOT an isolated example of this. In fact, it's so common, I can't see how others would not be noticing. The settings do not matter.

PSUColonel · 05-14-2013, 04:17 PM

In all honesty, I'm not really sure markus wants to change this aspect of scouting...I don't know why, but I just get that feeling

injury log · 05-14-2013, 05:15 PM

I guess some people are happier complaining about their problems than actually taking steps to fix them.

Painmantle · 05-14-2013, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

T me, I think this is the solution. From what I can tell the profile page ratings are based on the AI's overall evaluation of the player. The scouting report is a time based report. I still want the AI to have the opinion based on evaluation and not ratings, so why not just give us the option to hide the overall rating on the profile page,(stars) while allowing the ability to view stars on the scouting page? It would also be nice though if you could view the scouted overall rating (again, stars) on other pages such as the lineup screen or anywhere else, instead of the the way it currently is...which show the profile page rating.

Why not just ignore the stars all together? (Turn them off) Or change it to show a numerical value? Cause I can't imagine getting so worked up over how many stars there are on different pages when it's objective and based on an artificial intelligence . You have a solution right there in your "Global setup options" to eliminate this issue...it's just a couple clicks away!

PSUColonel · 05-14-2013, 07:40 PM

the same happens with a numerical value. I still want the stars for the scouting reports, but not on the profile page, because they rarely match. It's not like this hash't been going on for versions and versions now..I think I have taken a huge number of steps to try to have this rectified. I think it's going on 5 years now..maybe 6 or even 7

SandMan · 05-14-2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the same happens with a numerical value. I still want the stars for the scouting reports, but not on the profile page, because they rarely match. It's not like this hash't been going on for versions and versions now..I think I have taken a huge number of steps to try to have this rectified. I think it's going on 5 years now..maybe 6 or even 7

Did you send your files to Markus so that he may review your issue? If not, you have not done anything to help rectify the problem other that state that it is a problem.

Painmantle · 05-14-2013, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the same happens with a numerical value. I still want the stars for the scouting reports, but not on the profile page, because they rarely match. It's not like this hash't been going on for versions and versions now..I think I have taken a huge number of steps to try to have this rectified. I think it's going on 5 years now..maybe 6 or even 7

Your whole beef here is with the stars not matching. The current and potential rating match between the two areas...I mean seriously is it that big of a deal if the stars aren't exact, can't we reach way back in our deepest imagination and try to believe that maybe...just maybe, scouting isn't an exact science?

The example you posted in this thread shows the player as 1-3 stars on the profile and 1/2 to 4 stars on the scouting report. IMHO since scouting isn't exact that is within the margin of error. And these stars are nothing more than " possible overall ratings or Potentials" were talking about here. it would be one thing if the individual numerical ratings were out of whack, but they are not. i'd be interested in seeing the History of that player to see which scouting dates they match. Most likely they are both correct and just from different scouting instances, which is pretty much what Markus said in an earlier post!

olivertheorem · 05-14-2013, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painmantle

Why not just ignore the stars all together? (Turn them off) Or change it to show a numerical value? Cause I can't imagine getting so worked up over how many stars there are on different pages when it's objective and based on an artificial intelligence . You have a solution right there in your "Global setup options" to eliminate this issue...it's just a couple clicks away!

I think I'm going to do that now, when I restart my Astros game tonight. Thanks for the idea, Painmantle. Somehow, I honestly hadn't thought of that before.

Ts-Rock · 05-14-2013, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

the same happens with a numerical value. I still want the stars for the scouting reports, but not on the profile page, because they rarely match. It's not like this hash't been going on for versions and versions now..I think I have taken a huge number of steps to try to have this rectified. I think it's going on 5 years now..maybe 6 or even 7

Markus asked you a month ago to file a bug report and upload your files and now I'm the 4th different forum member to ask you if you filed a bug report and upload your files so they can be looked at to see what is causing the issue.

up to this point you have failed to answer the question that could lead to the answer/change you want.....Did you file a bug report and upload your files?

hefalumps · 05-14-2013, 09:58 PM

I understand PSUColonel's frustration here - I see the problem a lot in my OOTP13 league, especially with relievers - I posted screenshots in a similar thread here. As you'll see in my screenshot, the differences between star rating in profile and scouting report are drastic - it makes it very difficult to judge a player's talent on a glance - I have to go look at every MR's scouting report to make sure they're really worth it.

Since my league is still OOTP13 (haven't tried one in 14 yet), I can't file a bug report, but I'll be happy to upload my OOTP13 league files if Markus wants them.

PSUColonel · 05-14-2013, 11:50 PM

fine I will do so, but this has been the case for many versions now.

Déjà Bru · 05-15-2013, 09:03 AM

I play only fictional and I have never noticed this. I do see that the examples shown are real players, however. Is this issue the result of using the MLB quickstart?

hefalumps · 05-15-2013, 10:15 AM

Mine is a historical league I started in 1970 using OOTP9 and have been importing ever since (haven't brought it into 14 yet).

I just had another interesting example. Felix Hernandez had been a borderline ace for the Mariners as he approached FA. But in May of 2010 (his walk year), he got hurt and missed the rest of the season after starting 7-0 with a 2.82 ERA. After returning from the injury and hitting the open market, the Mets ended up signing him as a reliever for $650K during spring training.

Here were his ratings (max 20) and current/potential (max 80) for the start of 2010:

16(16)/16(16)/13(13), current 75/80, potential 75/80

And after getting hurt, here were his ratings for 2011 now that his suggested ML role has changed from "Starter" to "Bullpen"

14(14)/15(15)/12(13), current 20/80, potential 66/80

I can deal with this - the injury may have drastically lessened his effectiveness. But what are his current and potential ratings on the Profile page?

74/80 and 74/80

I can forgive the difference for the potential, but for current, which is it - 74 or 20?

Déjà Bru · 05-15-2013, 02:10 PM

Here's another possibility (forgive me if it's already been discussed): Is this occurring only with leagues imported from previous versions? Just throwing out ideas.

hefalumps · 05-15-2013, 03:00 PM

Another thing I was thinking about is maybe if there got to be too many players at a particular position, things with the overall/potential star ratings might start going wacky. As I've said, it seems to be particularly bad for MRs in my league. Well, I'm in Spring Training and when I "Show All Players" I see 354 MRs with 162 MRs still available on FA. That doesn't even include minor league MRs not on the 40-man roster.

Not sure if that's too many for a modern-era 2011 league, but I notice there are a number of MRs left on the FA market each year. There's certainly more of them than any other position.

Just a thought.

Centre · 05-15-2013, 03:09 PM

I'm really surprised other people haven't been noticing this (as it has occurred in the past few versions of OOTP). I'm with you PSUColonel.

Here's my take:

I usually just play MLB quickstart with All-In-One my only add-on. This scouting bug has happened to me every version of OOTP I can remember. In the first season or two of the game, the profile page ratings (either star or numerical, doesn't matter) are fairly in-tune with OSA on either normal or very high (my preferred) scouting accuracy.

However, as time goes on, the scouting ratings on the profile page get worse and worse. Here's what a typical draft is like for me: I have a world class scout. I have scouting accuracy on very high. The profile page will tell me a player is a .5 star / .5 star rating, or even 21/21. You then click on the scouting tab and OSA will have that player as 5/5 78/78. Years go by and OSA will still have the player accurately scouted and the scout (and scouting page) do not.

I realize now I might have brought up two different issues here, but this isn't an isolated case of my scout just getting a prospect wrong. If I look at the top 20 players in a draft according to OSA, my scout will regularly have only a few of them in his top 20. Why is there such a big discrepancy?

The only real solution I've found to this problem is to completely ignore my own scouts and trust in OSA, meaning I always have to click on scouting when I want to view a player. It's really just unnecessary and frustrating clicking. Furthermore, what's the point of even having stars on the profile if they aren't accurate?

I may have rambled a bit, and my thoughts probably got off-track at some point, but I'm glad to answer any questions if someone has one for me.

Oh, one other thing, I am also experiencing this problem in a custom fictional league I set up based on a normal MLB setup.

Cinnamon J. Scudworth · 05-15-2013, 04:46 PM

Centre, I'm not sure what to make of your post. We're talking about your scout's star rating on the scouting page being different from your scout's star rating on the profile page. Your scout's ratings and OSA's ratings should be different, because they are different entities (and OSA is intended to be fairly inaccurate, relative to your scout).

In terms of the problem that PSUColonel is reporting, I've certainly seen it as well. It's definitely something that the OOTP team should take a look at, but ultimately it's pretty easy for me to put it out of my mind as a player because 1) I don't pay attention to star ratings all that much and 2) the actual component ratings (contact, eye, etc.) are the same on each screen, so the issue seems fairly cosmetic.

Centre · 05-15-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cinnamon J. Scudworth

Centre, I'm not sure what to make of your post. We're talking about your scout's star rating on the scouting page being different from your scout's star rating on the profile page. Your scout's ratings and OSA's ratings should be different, because they are different entities (and OSA is intended to be fairly inaccurate, relative to your scout).

I'm sorry. The general point of my post was that I have had the same problems as PSUColonel with barely any changes to the setups of my league. As I typed it kind of devolved into talking about other things.

Re-reading the mess I wrote, what I was trying to get at is that in my experience over years of gameplay in OOTP 13 and 14, despite having world-class scouts, they are regularly wrong when scouting prospects while OSA has been much more accurate. I know I don't have any evidence to support this outside of stories, but I've found that my world-class scouts always disagree with OSA's top prospects lists, and it's these prospects that I've seen find the most success in the big leagues. I'm not sure what to make of this, and I felt like it might be somewhat connected to this problem, which I why I tacked it on.

05-15-2013, 09:03 AM	#34
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	I play only fictional and I have never noticed this. I do see that the examples shown are real players, however. Is this issue the result of using the MLB quickstart? __________________ - Bru

05-15-2013, 10:15 AM	#35
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	Mine is a historical league I started in 1970 using OOTP9 and have been importing ever since (haven't brought it into 14 yet). I just had another interesting example. Felix Hernandez had been a borderline ace for the Mariners as he approached FA. But in May of 2010 (his walk year), he got hurt and missed the rest of the season after starting 7-0 with a 2.82 ERA. After returning from the injury and hitting the open market, the Mets ended up signing him as a reliever for $650K during spring training. Here were his ratings (max 20) and current/potential (max 80) for the start of 2010: 16(16)/16(16)/13(13), current 75/80, potential 75/80 And after getting hurt, here were his ratings for 2011 now that his suggested ML role has changed from "Starter" to "Bullpen" 14(14)/15(15)/12(13), current 20/80, potential 66/80 I can deal with this - the injury may have drastically lessened his effectiveness. But what are his current and potential ratings on the Profile page? 74/80 and 74/80 I can forgive the difference for the potential, but for current, which is it - 74 or 20? Last edited by hefalumps; 05-15-2013 at 10:16 AM.

05-15-2013, 02:10 PM	#36
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,741	Here's another possibility (forgive me if it's already been discussed): Is this occurring only with leagues imported from previous versions? Just throwing out ideas. __________________ - Bru

05-15-2013, 04:46 PM	#39
Cinnamon J. Scudworth All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 1,118	Centre, I'm not sure what to make of your post. We're talking about your scout's star rating on the scouting page being different from your scout's star rating on the profile page. Your scout's ratings and OSA's ratings should be different, because they are different entities (and OSA is intended to be fairly inaccurate, relative to your scout). In terms of the problem that PSUColonel is reporting, I've certainly seen it as well. It's definitely something that the OOTP team should take a look at, but ultimately it's pretty easy for me to put it out of my mind as a player because 1) I don't pay attention to star ratings all that much and 2) the actual component ratings (contact, eye, etc.) are the same on each screen, so the issue seems fairly cosmetic. __________________ "Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. You’ve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason

05-14-2013, 04:16 PM	#23
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,144	He did respond, but nothing has happened. I am NOT an isolated example of this. In fact, it's so common, I can't see how others would not be noticing. The settings do not matter.

05-14-2013, 04:17 PM	#24
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,144	In all honesty, I'm not really sure markus wants to change this aspect of scouting...I don't know why, but I just get that feeling

05-14-2013, 05:15 PM	#25
injury log Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Toronto Posts: 9,162	I guess some people are happier complaining about their problems than actually taking steps to fix them.

05-14-2013, 07:40 PM	#27
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,144	the same happens with a numerical value. I still want the stars for the scouting reports, but not on the profile page, because they rarely match. It's not like this hash't been going on for versions and versions now..I think I have taken a huge number of steps to try to have this rectified. I think it's going on 5 years now..maybe 6 or even 7

05-14-2013, 09:58 PM	#32
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	I understand PSUColonel's frustration here - I see the problem a lot in my OOTP13 league, especially with relievers - I posted screenshots in a similar thread here. As you'll see in my screenshot, the differences between star rating in profile and scouting report are drastic - it makes it very difficult to judge a player's talent on a glance - I have to go look at every MR's scouting report to make sure they're really worth it. Since my league is still OOTP13 (haven't tried one in 14 yet), I can't file a bug report, but I'll be happy to upload my OOTP13 league files if Markus wants them.

05-14-2013, 11:50 PM	#33
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,144	fine I will do so, but this has been the case for many versions now.

05-15-2013, 03:00 PM	#37
hefalumps All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,392	Another thing I was thinking about is maybe if there got to be too many players at a particular position, things with the overall/potential star ratings might start going wacky. As I've said, it seems to be particularly bad for MRs in my league. Well, I'm in Spring Training and when I "Show All Players" I see 354 MRs with 162 MRs still available on FA. That doesn't even include minor league MRs not on the 40-man roster. Not sure if that's too many for a modern-era 2011 league, but I notice there are a number of MRs left on the FA market each year. There's certainly more of them than any other position. Just a thought.

05-15-2013, 03:09 PM	#38
Centre Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 27	I'm really surprised other people haven't been noticing this (as it has occurred in the past few versions of OOTP). I'm with you PSUColonel. Here's my take: I usually just play MLB quickstart with All-In-One my only add-on. This scouting bug has happened to me every version of OOTP I can remember. In the first season or two of the game, the profile page ratings (either star or numerical, doesn't matter) are fairly in-tune with OSA on either normal or very high (my preferred) scouting accuracy. However, as time goes on, the scouting ratings on the profile page get worse and worse. Here's what a typical draft is like for me: I have a world class scout. I have scouting accuracy on very high. The profile page will tell me a player is a .5 star / .5 star rating, or even 21/21. You then click on the scouting tab and OSA will have that player as 5/5 78/78. Years go by and OSA will still have the player accurately scouted and the scout (and scouting page) do not. I realize now I might have brought up two different issues here, but this isn't an isolated case of my scout just getting a prospect wrong. If I look at the top 20 players in a draft according to OSA, my scout will regularly have only a few of them in his top 20. Why is there such a big discrepancy? The only real solution I've found to this problem is to completely ignore my own scouts and trust in OSA, meaning I always have to click on scouting when I want to view a player. It's really just unnecessary and frustrating clicking. Furthermore, what's the point of even having stars on the profile if they aren't accurate? I may have rambled a bit, and my thoughts probably got off-track at some point, but I'm glad to answer any questions if someone has one for me. Oh, one other thing, I am also experiencing this problem in a custom fictional league I set up based on a normal MLB setup.