Market Size Going Up...Way Up

ryanivr · 04-17-2013, 11:35 PM

Running into what seems to be an issue, but wanted to get some feedback. Market sizes are going up quite a bit over time. There's been fluctuations in previous versions, so maybe a team that started at 15 would end up at 12 after 100 years, or go up to 17 eventually, but it would stay in the general ballpark.

While it's debatable whether that was realistic in terms of literal market size, I liked the effect. However, based on some initial testing, I'm noticing skyrocketing market sizes.

For example, three teams in my sixteen team test league started at 17, 17 and 12, ended up at 20, 20 and 18 after one hundred years.

But now, I see something really whacky. A team that started at 17 has risen to a market size of 26 (Yes, 26, above the 1-20 range the game lists) after a two-hundred year sim. So my questions are:

1) Is there possibly an issue with market sizes rising a hell of a lot without ever falling?

2) Is the market size going past it's normal range (to 26 in this case) a bug?

SkyeWalker · 04-17-2013, 11:42 PM

I've been getting this as well. More annoyingly, it's causing inflation in the leagues as after simming 10-20 years the average revenue of the league goes up SIGNIFICANTLY despite all financial settings kept constant.

ryanivr · 04-17-2013, 11:44 PM

I'm about to do a test league, starting all teams at market sizes of 10, sim 100 years, and see what happens.

native son · 04-17-2013, 11:47 PM

In the last version, I remember something about a particular storyline that caused those big jumps in market size that you describe. I disabled storylines, and all was normal. Perhaps that's still an issue in this version as well. I play with them off as a rule now, and it doesn't take much away from the game for my tastes.

ryanivr · 04-17-2013, 11:49 PM

I think I had them disabled as well based on that thought, but I just set up my test league, storylines are off, and here we go. I'll report back anything interesting.

Cras · 04-18-2013, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by native son

In the last version, I remember something about a particular storyline that caused those big jumps in market size that you describe. I disabled storylines, and all was normal. Perhaps that's still an issue in this version as well. I play with them off as a rule now, and it doesn't take much away from the game for my tastes.

I got one that nearly cut my market size in half back in v13, and at that point I turned it off. I have them on at the moment now starting with v14, but I have played two full seasons now in 14, I won the World Series both years, and both years my market sized increased. It was a rare thing to get a bump in market size back in 13.

SetonHallPirate · 04-18-2013, 04:06 AM

I would argue that, over that long a period, that much of a change in market size is probably accurate. Keep in mind that the United States of America as a whole has roughly three and a half times as many people now as it did 100 years ago.

Bluenoser · 04-18-2013, 08:47 AM

I, and many, have been requesting for several versions to have the ability to lock market size, fan loyalty, fan interest, owner spending and owner patience.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen.

SO, every single off-season I go in and reset them all to where I want them. PITA

Déjà Bru · 04-18-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I, and many, have been requesting for several versions to have the ability to lock market size, fan loyalty, fan interest, owner spending and owner patience.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen.

SO, every single off-season I go in and reset them all to where I want them. PITA

Well said. Same here.

Déjà Bru · 04-18-2013, 11:12 AM

Fortunately, there is this screen that allows us to keep track and click the team names for editing market sizes back to where they should be:

ryanivr · 04-18-2013, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Fortunately, there is this screen that allows us to keep track and click the team names for editing market sizes back to where they should be:

Wow, I've been looking for that screen all night. I couldn't remember where it was! Thanks!

ryanivr · 04-18-2013, 12:18 PM

So I want to bring this up again so it doesn't get lost in the market size debate. A market size for a team was at 26, past the range of 1-20. Bug?

Aumakua · 04-18-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I, and many, have been requesting for several versions to have the ability to lock market size, fan loyalty, fan interest, owner spending and owner patience.

Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen.

SO, every single off-season I go in and reset them all to where I want them. PITA

Don't those change during the year though? I was pretty upset when I started my league in OOTP13 and manually set everything, just to see that mid season they all had changed!

I agree we need a feature that disables dynamic changes of these, so we have full control over it. My biggest problem in 13 was that teams that should have been small markets would soon eclipse the market size of the Yankees in a matter of years, it made no sense. I understand market size is not the same as city population but usually they are pretty closely linked.

Bluenoser · 04-18-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aumakua

Don't those change during the year though? I was pretty upset when I started my league in OOTP13 and manually set everything, just to see that mid season they all had changed!

I agree we need a feature that disables dynamic changes of these, so we have full control over it. My biggest problem in 13 was that teams that should have been small markets would soon eclipse the market size of the Yankees in a matter of years, it made no sense. I understand market size is not the same as city population but usually they are pretty closely linked.

Yes, they do change during the year. That's why I reset them each off season, but it would be soooo much easier if you could just lock them.

cody8200 · 04-18-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanivr

I think I had them disabled as well based on that thought, but I just set up my test league, storylines are off, and here we go. I'll report back anything interesting.

These market fluctuations due to storylines are toned down in OOTP 14. Please do report back your results. The 26 sized market definitely sounds like a bug.

ecd1973 · 04-18-2013, 11:17 PM

My financials are way off. I simmed a standard MLB league through 5 seasons with 2012 financial settings. After 5 seasons every team is over 100,000,000 in payroll and the highest salary is a 3 year 150,000,000 deal. Settings still say 17,000,000 should be the superstar salary.

What is going on?

Markus Heinsohn · 04-19-2013, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cody8200

These market fluctuations due to storylines are toned down in OOTP 14. Please do report back your results. The 26 sized market definitely sounds like a bug.

Right, this does not sound right. The normal code for market size fluctuations has not changed since OOTP 13, so it defintely has something to do with storylines. I will look into it.

ryanivr · 04-19-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Right, this does not sound right. The normal code for market size fluctuations has not changed since OOTP 13, so it defintely has something to do with storylines. I will look into it.

Markus, did a test with storylines off and saw the same thing. Market size at 21 for a team that started at 17.

Markus Heinsohn · 04-19-2013, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryanivr

Markus, did a test with storylines off and saw the same thing. Market size at 21 for a team that started at 17.

All right, I'll look into it, thanks

04-17-2013, 11:35 PM	#1
ryanivr All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 907	Market Size Going Up...Way Up Running into what seems to be an issue, but wanted to get some feedback. Market sizes are going up quite a bit over time. There's been fluctuations in previous versions, so maybe a team that started at 15 would end up at 12 after 100 years, or go up to 17 eventually, but it would stay in the general ballpark. While it's debatable whether that was realistic in terms of literal market size, I liked the effect. However, based on some initial testing, I'm noticing skyrocketing market sizes. For example, three teams in my sixteen team test league started at 17, 17 and 12, ended up at 20, 20 and 18 after one hundred years. But now, I see something really whacky. A team that started at 17 has risen to a market size of 26 (Yes, 26, above the 1-20 range the game lists) after a two-hundred year sim. So my questions are: 1) Is there possibly an issue with market sizes rising a hell of a lot without ever falling? 2) Is the market size going past it's normal range (to 26 in this case) a bug?

04-17-2013, 11:47 PM	#4
native son Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: New York, NY Posts: 100	In the last version, I remember something about a particular storyline that caused those big jumps in market size that you describe. I disabled storylines, and all was normal. Perhaps that's still an issue in this version as well. I play with them off as a rule now, and it doesn't take much away from the game for my tastes. __________________ life in lowercase

04-18-2013, 11:12 AM	#10
Déjà Bru Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Long Island Posts: 11,742	Fortunately, there is this screen that allows us to keep track and click the team names for editing market sizes back to where they should be: Attached Images __________________ - Bru

04-17-2013, 11:42 PM	#2
SkyeWalker Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 272	I've been getting this as well. More annoyingly, it's causing inflation in the leagues as after simming 10-20 years the average revenue of the league goes up SIGNIFICANTLY despite all financial settings kept constant.

04-17-2013, 11:44 PM	#3
ryanivr All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 907	I'm about to do a test league, starting all teams at market sizes of 10, sim 100 years, and see what happens.

04-17-2013, 11:49 PM	#5
ryanivr All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 907	I think I had them disabled as well based on that thought, but I just set up my test league, storylines are off, and here we go. I'll report back anything interesting.

04-18-2013, 04:06 AM	#7
SetonHallPirate Minors (Triple A) Join Date: May 2002 Location: Boynton Beach, Florida Posts: 205	I would argue that, over that long a period, that much of a change in market size is probably accurate. Keep in mind that the United States of America as a whole has roughly three and a half times as many people now as it did 100 years ago.

04-18-2013, 08:47 AM	#8
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,433	I, and many, have been requesting for several versions to have the ability to lock market size, fan loyalty, fan interest, owner spending and owner patience. Unfortunately, I don't think it's ever going to happen. SO, every single off-season I go in and reset them all to where I want them. PITA

04-18-2013, 12:18 PM	#12
ryanivr All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 907	So I want to bring this up again so it doesn't get lost in the market size debate. A market size for a team was at 26, past the range of 1-20. Bug?

04-18-2013, 11:17 PM	#16
ecd1973 Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: NJ, USA Posts: 314	My financials are way off. I simmed a standard MLB league through 5 seasons with 2012 financial settings. After 5 seasons every team is over 100,000,000 in payroll and the highest salary is a 3 year 150,000,000 deal. Settings still say 17,000,000 should be the superstar salary. What is going on?