Associations

[dave1927p]

So anything new with the assocations feature? It was suppose to be a big selling point last year and it had me sold but overall it felt just tacked on and i had no use to even activate it with my fictional leagues.

I would like to see history tracked in the Assocations the way it is tracked in other leagues and not only was it was a big disappointment but for the first time by ootp i couldn't help but felt mislead.


EDIT:

Also because i'm already ranting let me throw in (to hopefully not fall on deaf ears for the 5th year) the ability to remove a player from one league HOF but have him stay in another...i'm sick of my one player who had 2000 games as a HOF show up in another leagues HOF with only 1 season there.

Last off topic rant, i would like to see minor league contracts have an actual salary associated with them. I am tired of seeing players move from my canadian pro league getting 1,000,000 per year to play in the AA or AAA for nothing.

Rants over, i'm feeling better now. And we all know i'll be purchasing the game as i have since ootp9 but i wish i would see a couple of these things included as i know others feel the same way.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

last off topic rant, i would like to see minor league contracts have an actual salary associated with them. I am tired of seeing players move from my canadian pro league getting 1,000,000 per year to play in the aa or aaa for nothing.

+1

[Elektranaut]

I have to agree with the League Association comment.It seemed like something tacked on to the game as an afterthought,probaly by the office cleaner after Marcus went home.It would be nice to be able to combine League Stats and also to have a full record of the play off results.

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by Elektranaut

I have to agree with the League Association comment.It seemed like something tacked on to the game as an afterthought,probaly by the office cleaner after Marcus went home.It would be nice to be able to combine League Stats and also to have a full record of the play off results.

Well, it kind of WAS tacked on, in response to many user requests last year.

I am glad it does what it does, namely allow two (or more!) totally independent leagues to have a postseason matchup. And I like that they can share a draft pool; this is handy for league evolution over time where you might decide to add a new league or change playoff structures with them.

It's certainly not perfect, and as you say better history functions would be good, but some of the things you mention (combined league stats) mean you should be using subleagues rather than associations to do what you want. The idea behind the association is that it is the only relation between multiple independent leagues... think early days of baseball, pre-Landis. The league presidents have that power, and have to come together to discuss/negotiate terms for postseason play etc. That's all the association would cover in real life too, otherwise you'd have subleagues like the AL/NL under the pre-Selig commissioners.

[olivertheorem]

Association history would be good though. Overall association leaderboards pulled from the leagues, full association playoff history, and so on.

[Honorable_Pawn]

lets get back to the real issue here, shall we?


i would like to see minor league contracts have an actual salary associated with them. I am tired of seeing players move from my canadian pro league getting 1,000,000 per year to play in the aa or aaa for nothing.

[Righty Groove]

Originally Posted by Honorable_Pawn

lets get back to the real issue here, shall we?


i would like to see minor league contracts have an actual salary associated with them. I am tired of seeing players move from my canadian pro league getting 1,000,000 per year to play in the aa or aaa for nothing.

Definetely, I always found it weird that minor league players basically play for free.

[Shadow Knows]

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

Well, it kind of WAS tacked on, in response to many user requests last year.

People had been campaigning for the feature for six years. There was ample time to figure out how to properly implement it.

Originally Posted by GMLoophole

The idea behind the association is that it is the only relation between multiple independent leagues... think early days of baseball, pre-Landis. The league presidents have that power, and have to come together to discuss/negotiate terms for postseason play etc. That's all the association would cover in real life too, otherwise you'd have subleagues like the AL/NL under the pre-Selig commissioners.

Associations aren't meant to mimic pre-Landis baseball; the relationship between AL and NL remained an association for eight decades after he became commissioner. "Subleagues" aren't a pre-Seligula convention, the Bewigged Satan is their father.

[The Wolf]

Someone said once that Selig looked like a mackerel in a wig.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Righty Groove

Definetely, I always found it weird that minor league players basically play for free.

Well, that's not all that far from the truth.

While players on the 40-man roster who have not yet made the majors are guaranteed a minimum annual salary of $39,900 for 2013, and players with at least one day of major league service are paid a minimum of $79,900 per year while in the minors, the pay for other minor league players is generally very low, and has barely changed in years.

These were the minimum salaries for each minor league level in 2009:

AAA: $2,300 per month ($11,500 per year based on a 5-month season)
AA: $1,700 per month ($8,500 per year based on a 5-month season)
A-High: $1,300 per month ($6,500 per year based on a 5-month season)
A-Low: $1,200 per month ($6,000 per year based on a 5-month season)
A-Short: 1,100 per month ($2,860 per year based on a 2.6-month season)
Rookie: $1,100 per month ($2,530 per year based on a 2.3-month season)

There are some incentives which add a bit to the salary. Each additional year of service at a given level adds $100 per month. After 60 days in Class AA the player earns a $500 bonus; after 60 days in Class AAA, a $1,000 bonus; and after 60 days at the major league level, a $5,000 bonus (along with a bump to the minimum minor league salary as mentioned earlier).

But overall most minor league players do not make much money.

Nor do minor league player salaries constitute a large proportion of minor league expenses. In 2007, for example, the Texas Rangers spent approximately $4.46 million on costs directly associated with running six minor league affiliates; of that total, only about $1.73 million (38.6%) was for player salaries.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Shadow Knows

Associations aren't meant to mimic pre-Landis baseball...

Actually, they are, sort of. The intent of associations is to better mimic the earlier days of MLB when both the AL and NL were often more independent in their rules (such as when the two leagues had different active roster limits). It also allows each league in the association to have its own statistical environment independent of the other, which would allow more fidelity in recreating MLB history since each league's own historical statistical particulars could be followed..

Originally Posted by Shadow Knows

...the relationship between AL and NL remained an association for eight decades after he became commissioner. "Subleagues" aren't a pre-Seligula convention, the Bewigged Satan is their father.

While is is fashionable to blame Selig for all manner of things (and fail to give him credit where credit is due), in regards to the way the majors operated, it actually started back well before Selig's tenure as commissioner.

A big change came in 1983 when the majors revised the voting rules on certain matters were handled. What previously had often been solely the province of one league now became subject to a vote by both leagues. For example, before 1983 the relocation or sale of a club, or expansion of the league, required approval by a 3/4 majority vote within that league, and the other league had no say. (Hence why the AL was able to expand unilaterally in 1977; the NL had no say in the matter.) After the change, it required a 3/4 majority vote within the league and a majority vote by the other league in order to approve.

[Elektranaut]

It's curious that OOTP treats the National and American Leagues not as associations but as sub leagues and this goes all the way back to 1901.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Elektranaut

It's curious that OOTP treats the National and American Leagues not as associations but as sub leagues and this goes all the way back to 1901.

That's because (a) that's how it was done in earlier versions; and (b) it's still done that way for compatibility reasons with prior editions of OOTP.

[nutt]

Associations should also be involved at the minor/feeder league level

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Actually, they are, sort of. The intent of associations is to better mimic the earlier days of MLB when both the AL and NL were often more independent in their rules (such as when the two leagues had different active roster limits). It also allows each league in the association to have its own statistical environment independent of the other, which would allow more fidelity in recreating MLB history since each league's own historical statistical particulars could be followed..

Exactly, and it's even more useful in fictional leagues, allowing championship play between radically different leagues... So a Japanese league and an Italian league can have nationality limits but still play US teams in that tourney. For instance.

Again not arguing against better association stats/history, trying to suggest how you can get the game to do what you want it to.

[GMLoophole]

Originally Posted by Shadow Knows

People had been campaigning for the feature for six years. There was ample time to figure out how to properly implement it.

So you say. I recall the decision being made somewhat close to release. In any case, maybe you'd rather not have any associations but I and many other players have enjoyed them this year.

[stevebydac]

Bumping this as I'd like to hear if the associations playoff bug was ever truly fixed in OOTP 13, and is it all set for OOTP 14?

Numerous posters indicated that the game would crash or at least not set the association playoffs up properly.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-playoffs.html

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ses-crash.html

A bit later, Markus said it was all set, but I haven't seen any later confirmation from posters. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-playoffs.html

Those of us who play fictional really appreciate the adding of associations. But it needs to work properly. After hearing the early complaints I didn't start using the feature for fear of crashes to my complicated universe. I'd love to give it a go in OOTP 14.

[tomwolf2008]

Originally Posted by stevebydac

Bumping this as I'd like to hear if the associations playoff bug was ever truly fixed in OOTP 13, and is it all set for OOTP 14?

Numerous posters indicated that the game would crash or at least not set the association playoffs up properly.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-playoffs.html

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ses-crash.html

A bit later, Markus said it was all set, but I haven't seen any later confirmation from posters. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-playoffs.html

Those of us who play fictional really appreciate the adding of associations. But it needs to work properly. After hearing the early complaints I didn't start using the feature for fear of crashes to my complicated universe. I'd love to give it a go in OOTP 14.

Oh on this matter for me it is fixed, play out association playoff no longer cause crashes.

I think I saw some people still have this particular issue though...

[Cras]

I am not sure I would ever want to use Associations for MLB. I know there are aspects of it that would be good for historical re-enactment, and that historically, that is what they were for a vast majority of history.

What I really want Associations for is for the minor leagues. To be able to fold up my AAA and AA levels into some sort of association where I can have them participate in an all-star game, and in a post season, that would be fun. For the Majors, 'sub-leagues' have and always will be fine. For me anyway.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Elektranaut

I have to agree with the League Association comment.It seemed like something tacked on to the game as an afterthought,probaly by the office cleaner after Marcus went home.It would be nice to be able to combine League Stats and also to have a full record of the play off results.

Oh you have no idea... it took me WEEKS to code that thing! It was very very complicated to integrate it into the existing code & flow of the game. And I personally feel it was very well done and works great.

To answer the original question: No, this feature was not touched during development of OOTP 14.