May Have Reached the End

[OldFatGuy]

I have played thousands and thousands of games, over 60 years worth, from version 2007 (or OOTP 8) through 13. And though it has some issues I would dearly love fixed, I still loved it, already purchased 14, and mostly enjoy the game.

But after tonight, after about the two hundredth time this is happend (AT LEAST, probably more), I may have finally reached the point where I put the game down. LOL, I thought that would never happend, TBH. I am a baseball game freak, have been playing some sort of baseball game my whole life. And OOTP was by far, the most played, and most enjoyed.

But having 8 and 9 run 9th innings because the AI has no frigging clue how to manage a bullpen (No, NOT the warmup issue, I don't use the warmup rule) I win games I know I shouldn't, and perhaps tonights was the straw.

I recently started a new team, which requires years of rebuilding, and this is the first year we're competing for a division title. And I'm playing the division leader and am really getting into it. Trailing 4-2 going into the 9th, I had the bottom of my order coming up, just hoping one or two would get on and get back to the top of my lineup.

I scored 1 run relatively quickly, and there was one out. My heart pounding, I just knew my guys could pull this one out. Two more batters and the game is tied YEAH BABY.

Then 6 more batters and the game is 11-4. And sure enough, I look on the other teams roster and EVERY SINGLE RELIEF PITCHER IS FATIGUED BELOW 40%. That last inning was pitched mostly with the closer and his status was on exhausted ( I didn't realize this until I took the lead, after it being easier than I thought, I figured I'd better check and yep, exhausted.)

To say it takes something away from the victory, neh, from the game, is an understatement. To say it's happened more than 100 times is an understatement (I'm sure it's more like 2, 3, or 4 hundred). And the way this one occurred, after being exited and then realizing it was just another undeserved cheat victory, well, I think I may have reached the end point.

If so, thanks for all of the years of enjoyment Markus and OOTP. I played this game more than any other game I've ever played. Literally, and I do mean literally, I have played this game every day for the past four or five years. I bet I could count on my hands the number of days in that time that I didn't at least play one game.

Tonight was double whammy though, as I finally decided I'm going to fix this once and for all. At the beginning of each series, I'm going to go in and edit the bullpen's fatigue levels so that at the beginning of every series against my team they were 100% rested.

And it turns out you can't edit that.

I'm more sad than angry actually, and maybe in a day or two I'll change my mind. But if not, (and I actually think not, it just really is NOT fun to win big games like that), I do want the powers that be in OOTP to know that I thank you, for so many hours of enjoyment I couldn't afford in a million years what I probably owe you.

Thank you Markus, and best of luck to you.

[The Game]

Sorry you are leaving. It seems to me in my games when I am trailing the game is over. SureIi can come back from a 2 run deficit a few times a season. Anymore then 5 runs I think I have only come back once in 50+ seasons spanning multiple leagues. I have never once overcome a 10+ run deficit in any league when trailing by 10+ after 3 innings.

[rudel.dietrich]

I don't see this too terribly often since I most often play in god mode and rarely manage a team and even more rarely actually play out games.
But a few times before I have had issues where the AI could not juggle it's roster well and played tired position players and got it's rotation out of whack and was constantly starting tired pitchers.

I found two band aids which largely eliminated the problem.

The first is that I expanded rosters out to 28 players. I further set limits in that I let team use 13 pitchers and 15 position players.
This seems to ease the burden on the AI having to make hard decisions when it comes to juggling player and pitcher fatigue.

The second is that I turned off minor league option years. This one change massively improved the AI I have found.
When it is turned on the AI seems not to have any code programmed where it recognizes the importance of calling up a player. It will do so in very frivolous situations and waste an option.
I have seen players have all of their options used up before the AS break.
So for the last few versions I simply turn it off at league creation.
After doing that I found that the AI was a lot better at replacing fatigued and injured players with players out of AAA and AA.

If you want to go a step further then you can even let teams have a reserve roster.

I found that early in the season the AI generally does a better job at roster management but once injuries start happening then it completely breaks down in short order.

Oddly enough I find that the AI is much worse at juggling position player fatigue than managing it's bullpen.
Just goes to show you how different people interpret things different ways.

I have lost count of the number of times I have seen an AI team lose one of it's catchers to injury and then proceed to it's remaining catcher like a rented mule and play them 162 games

What I have started doing in my fictional leagues is at draft time randomly generating a number between 10-20 and then selecting at random that number of position players and giving them some sort of rating at catcher.
That way as the league evolves almost every team within a few seasons has 1-2 guys on the ML roster who have a catcher rating outside of the main catchers. It is not perfect but it goes a long ways towards solving my problem.


I hate band aid solutions just as much as the next person. I wish depth chart AI would get an overhaul. But sometimes you have to find alternate ways of getting around certain flaws in the game.

I still remember how many curse words I could create when I played OOTP 6.5 and the only way to do a depth chart was by %
The AI would have a tired player and if you have a lot of unluckly dice rolls it would keep playing the player game after game after game...


Or sometimes if you also got the reverse bad luck with die rolls then it would play the replacement 3-4 games in a row. I remember a few playoffs where this would occur and it would drive me to saying things that would make a veteran sailor blush.

[Markus Heinsohn]

First, the whole bullpen AI in OOTP 14 is basically brand new. It does a better job managing the bullpen.

Second, you can increase roster sizes and force the AI to carry X relief pitchers in OOTP 14 (league strategy settings), so that would take care of tired bullpens. The default setting for DH leagues has been tweaked too, modern leagues carry now 7 relief pitchers instead of 6.

So, give OOTP 14 a try, I bet you'll like what you see

[markprior22]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I have seen players have all of their options used up before the AS break.

Not sure I understand this. I thought options were years, not number of times you could be promoted/demoted in a season.

[tward13]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Not sure I understand this. I thought options were years, not number of times you could be promoted/demoted in a season.

You're correct. You can only use one option per year.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by markprior22

Not sure I understand this. I thought options were years, not number of times you could be promoted/demoted in a season.

This is correct now that I look at it. Maybe I should turn that on and she if it makes any difference.

[Déjà Bru]

You know, I play a fictional game right out of the box, for 62 seasons in my last iteration, and I never saw this consistently, ever. A big-inning occasionally? Of course, but never consistently.

I wonder about a couple of things here. For me to not have this problem, and for OFG to say it's "the two hundredth time this is happend (AT LEAST, probably more)" begs two questions:

• Is OFG exaggerating the situation?
• Has OFG altered the settings in his game, like lowering pitcher stamina or raising reliever frequency to very often, and who knows what else?

[The Wolf]

In my ongoing MAL league I increased the roster size to 30, with 15 pitchers, and I never see a problem like this

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

In my ongoing MAL league I increased the roster size to 30, with 15 pitchers, and I never see a problem like this

I understand how this would help AI teams, but how many of those 10 bullpen pitchers do you personally use? I often find I can get through huge chunks of the season using 1 middle guy, 2 good setup guys and a closer. I'm not huge on the whole righty/lefty thing, but still.

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

You know, I play a fictional game right out of the box, for 62 seasons in my last iteration, and I never saw this consistently, ever. A big-inning occasionally? Of course, but never consistently.

I wonder about a couple of things here. For me to not have this problem, and for OFG to say it's "the two hundredth time this is happend (AT LEAST, probably more)" begs two questions:

• Is OFG exaggerating the situation?
• Has OFG altered the settings in his game, like lowering pitcher stamina or raising reliever frequency to very often, and who knows what else?

Totally agree. I don't alter active roster sizes or anything else and I don't see this as a problem. Anymore. A few versions back, it was a big problem, but I haven't seen it as a problem in either of the last two versions, at least.

Can't really imagine what the problem might be, but he definitely needs to look at all the potential "strategy" options that could effect reliever fatigue. There is "use of relievers" and "pitcher stamina" on the "General Strategic Tendencies" side, and then there is "Relief Pitcher Stamina" on the "Modifier" side.

It's my experience that the AI does a much better job of properly using a bullpen (Lefty/Righty matchups for one) than before, so I'd be willing to bet that his problems lie somewhere in his settings. If this were an "out of the box" problem, there would have been much screaming and dismay.

There are many, many things that can cause "settings" issues in this game, like converting leagues from version to version for example, and keeping an eye on the overall league settings is something that should be done regularly as such. It's not for the faint of heart, and in the end probably does chase off a few customers, but for the most part, if you'll spend some time with the various options the game offers, you'll get it right (or close enough), with relative ease. At least IMHO.

[Lukas Berger]

Agree with the last few posters. Years ago, this was an issue. It hasn't been for me for a while. Which leads me to believe that the OP is either overstating the frequency of the issue or has changed some important settings in his league.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by David Watts

I understand how this would help AI teams, but how many of those 10 bullpen pitchers do you personally use? I often find I can get through huge chunks of the season using 1 middle guy, 2 good setup guys and a closer. I'm not huge on the whole righty/lefty thing, but still.

I keep all 15 rust free. Everybody get some innings now and then, be it in a blowout or whatever.

[The Wolf]

I should add that my team's overall pitching quality is not that good. That team's strength is in its hitters.

[DDover]

We'll miss you around here OldFatGuy. If you do end up leaving, some of us older vets might want your screen name, as I - for one - have gained my share of weight since I started playing this game. Not that it's necessarily related - but I'm definitely 10-20 pounds heavier than I was when I first downloaded OOTP9.

[Afino]

Wait, isn't there a "reset player fatigue" button now? It's in OOTP13 - Game Setup.

Functions -> Reset functions -> Reset fatigue of all players.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Attachment 280527

[highandoutside]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

In my ongoing MAL league I increased the roster size to 30, with 15 pitchers, and I never see a problem like this

I can't seem to find the option that would allow me to set the number of pitchers the AI needs to to carry. Am I missing something?

[RchW]

Originally Posted by highandoutside

I can't seem to find the option that would allow me to set the number of pitchers the AI needs to to carry. Am I missing something?

Yes, OOTP 14.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by highandoutside

I can't seem to find the option that would allow me to set the number of pitchers the AI needs to to carry. Am I missing something?

Just upping your roster size to 30 will fix the problem.