Tie-breakers

[oman19]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

Considering that Markus receives more Thanks than God on the the 4th Thursday of November, when I see this post with 0 thanks it tells me that there is a unanimous dissent amongst the users from the quoted point of view.

Yes I thought that was and indictment against it not being handled right as well.

This needs to be our new Mass Select campaign lol. If we can get that in surely we can get this in.

Granted this may be more complicated but just even to get the simplest form of tie-breaking which is looking at head-to-head records needs to be done.

If it is to hard to do then let us edit the playoffs. TonyM seemed to think it would be fairly simple to do since he was doing it when he was still releasing his Playoff editor utility.

Man do I wish I knew how to program so I could keep up his work.

To play out 162 games and then not have the final results handled right is not right for a game this deep and complex.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by VanillaGorilla

Considering that Markus receives more Thanks than God on the the 4th Thursday of November, when I see this post with 0 thanks it tells me that there is a unanimous dissent amongst the users from the quoted point of view.

Pretty much.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by oman19

Granted this may be more complicated but just even to get the simplest form of tie-breaking which is looking at head-to-head records needs to be done.

There is no doubt that getting tie-breaking correct is probably complicated. But here's the thing: It only needs to be coded properly once. Then it's done and need not be touched again. It's not as if tie-breaking rules change every year, requiring an adjustment every OOTP release. No, they change very infrequently, and when they do change it's usually a minor change that ought not to be difficult to incorporate.

So basically get the tie-breaking done right now and it most likely won't have to be looked at again for a long, long time.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There is no doubt that getting tie-breaking correct is probably complicated. But here's the thing: It only needs to be coded properly once. Then it's done and need not be touched again. It's not as if tie-breaking rules change every year, requiring an adjustment every OOTP release. No, they change very infrequently, and when they do change it's usually a minor change that ought not to be difficult to incorporate.

So basically get the tie-breaking done right now and it most likely won't have to be looked at again for a long, long time.

Well I'm talking about as a first step just allowing us to edit the playoffs so we can take care of any tie-break issues ourselves might be simple. I'm just going by what TonyM said way back when though.

That would be a great first step but the game really does need to do this by itself and do it right. The integrity of every leagues result is tarnished if the game doesn't handle it right. Baseball fans, ESPECIALLY ones that are interested in this game love to count and to dissect every little detail of every number. We are naturally kind of OCD about numbers and tracking things hence our interest in a game like this. With all the advanced things this game DOES track and do right not to do this basic thing like get the seeding right is unacceptable and this is coming from one of admittedly OOTP biggest fan boys.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

There is no doubt that getting tie-breaking correct is probably complicated. But here's the thing: It only needs to be coded properly once. Then it's done and need not be touched again. It's not as if tie-breaking rules change every year, requiring an adjustment every OOTP release. No, they change very infrequently, and when they do change it's usually a minor change that ought not to be difficult to incorporate.

So basically get the tie-breaking done right now and it most likely won't have to be looked at again for a long, long time.

If not now it really needs to have a priority in OOTP 15.

[Le Grande Orange]

I'll try to do some more tests this weekend and raise the matter again in beta. But for a variety of reasons I wouldn't expect to see much done in this area this year.

[The Wolf]

So how about next year? The dreaded five-way is coming.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'll try to do some more tests this weekend and raise the matter again in beta. But for a variety of reasons I wouldn't expect to see much done in this area this year.

I appreciate your efforts LGO. You have no idea how much I appreciate it. I can't tell you enough how much I love OOTP but this issue is game-breaking for me. I mean I'm to the point now where I've contemplated PM'ing TonyM and seeing if I can buy his version of OOTP for him in order to get him to start doing his playoff editor again.

I'm not going to kick and scream and threaten to never buy the game again but I may skip this version because of this issue and possibly every version till this get fixed. Markus and Co. do a great job and I know they work their hardest to make this game the best it can be but on this issue it's game-killing for me.

I spend countless hours and days setting up my leagues and tweaking settings to get everything just to my liking but my OCD won't let me enjoy it when the playoff results are not right. It bothers me so much I can't go on with the league any more.

Eventually this happens to me with every league I start. A tie is not handled correctly and there is no way to fix it and I start to look at the league as flawed because the results for the most important part of the season are not right. I just can't take it anymore. I used to be able to work around it with TonyM's playoff editor but with him not updating it the past few versions I find myself having to restart every league I create. I haven't been able to get more than a few seasons into any league I create since he discontinued it because of this happening.

I hope the above does not come off to harsh or as whining but it is how I feel.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

So how about next year?

To quote Rick Blaine, I never make plans that far ahead. (And don't ask me about yesterday, that was so long ago I forget.)

[oman19]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'll try to do some more tests this weekend and raise the matter again in beta. But for a variety of reasons I wouldn't expect to see much done in this area this year.

Not sure if you can or not but keep me updated on if this gets any attention during beta.

If I hear it does I'll put my yearly pre-order in ASAP and skip everywhere I go until release. That's right I said skip. I'll even upload video to prove it lol.

Sadly Markus hasn't been able to respond to my PM or again in this thread. That is understandable seeing as the time of year it is I am sure he is beyond busy. Just was hoping I was able to grab his attention on this issue.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

To quote Rick Blaine, I never make plans that far ahead. (And don't ask me about yesterday, that was so long ago I forget.)

That only works on Yvonne.

Are you going to make it an issue next year?

[MBarrett]

Our online league had a tie-breaker mess this season, where the team that won the head-to-head didn't get the spot it deserved in the playoffs. When you have 30 guys together playing out a full season and all the work that goes into it, only to have the game mess-up a crucial part of an MLB re-creation and screw a team out of a playoff spot, that's almost a deal breaker.

The only workaround we could think of was to schedule an additional game at the end of the regular season between the two, a tie-breaker game. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by MBarrett

Our online league had a tie-breaker mess this season, where the team that won the head-to-head didn't get the spot it deserved in the playoffs. When you have 30 guys together playing out a full season and all the work that goes into it, only to have the game mess-up a crucial part of an MLB re-creation and screw a team out of a playoff spot, that's almost a deal breaker.

The only workaround we could think of was to schedule an additional game at the end of the regular season between the two, a tie-breaker game. Not ideal, but better than nothing.

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Thanks for contributing MBarrett. 30 guys playing 162 games and the results are not handled correctly I can not believe happens with my beloved OOTP.

I play OOTP because I love watching the leaderboards season to season. All-time and single season. Scheduling an extra game in order to work around would taint this for me but I'm glad it worked for you guys somewhat.

[oman19]

I received a few messages asking what the Playoff editor mod was I keep referring to. Here it is. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ff-editor.html

[oman19]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If not now it really needs to have a priority in OOTP 15.

Ugh it hurts hearing MAYBE in OOTP 15 as your guess. Was really hoping the higher ups would see the sense in this and slate it for the first major patch.

I know I know my hopes are to high but I still have my fingers crossed.

[The Wolf]

Hey, LGO says not this year. Help me persuade him to go all out for it with Markus next year for 15.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Hey, LGO says not this year. Help me persuade him to go all out for it with Markus next year for 15.

I'm with you Wolf. Let's put the mass select campaign to shame!

I thought I would try my luck getting some attention paid to this by PM'ing Andreas. Let's see if I make any headway there. I hate bugging them but as I've said over and over again this strikes at the very integrity of the final results of any league so it should be on top of the priority list.

I also PM'ed Tony M and actually volunteered to pay for this version this year if he would start doing his Utility again as a long shot way to work around this. I don't even know if he still is active or plays the game so I know that is a long shot.

I am a man of ordinary means that has a baby on the way in May and just purchased our 1st home in November. Me offering to pay for someone elses pre-order just to get this fixed shows you how desperate I am.

[Le Grande Orange]

My impression is that Markus feels that either (a) the tie-breaking is fine as is; or (b) the benefit of really fixing it up fully isn't worth the amount of time and effort it would take to do so.

Now, maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's the impression I have.

If that impression is accurate, and you guys can change his mind, then by all means have at it. I can provide the necessary suggestions for how tie-breaking should work (including for leagues using the split-season format, which have their own particular rules) if/when asked.

[oman19]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

My impression is that Markus feels that either (a) the tie-breaking is fine as is; or (b) the benefit of really fixing it up fully isn't worth the amount of time and effort it would take to do so.

Now, maybe I'm wrong about that, but that's the impression I have.

If that impression is accurate, and you guys can change his mind, then by all means have at it. I can provide the necessary suggestions for how tie-breaking should work (including for leagues using the split-season format, which have their own particular rules) if/when asked.

I'm going to give it a try. As I've said I doubt I will order again until this issue is addressed and I'm one of the biggest OOTP fanboys out there.

I'll even go as far to sign a contract to pre-order for the next 5 years if they fix it lmao. Hopefully me voting with my pocketbook and asking nicely while trying to illustrate how important this is to the integrity of the game and leagues that use it will help get this issue the attention it deserves. I just hope some more people will join us in our cause. I don't want them to feel bullied or I am saber rattling because they do put out one of the greatest games out there. The game just falls very short on this issue.

I understand they can't give attention to every issue brought up in these forums but this is more than a small issue.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Ah, we're talking about seeding. For me that is something different than tie-breaking, which indeed did get work in OOTP 13. Anyway, I'll have a look at this prior to the OOTP 14 release.