Fantasy Hockey Team Name Generator

[archibalduk]

I was having a mess around with C# today as it seems easier than C++ in terms of designing graphical user interfaces (I'm a novice programmer and most of my apps have been C++ command line tools - mostly editors and patches for EHM). Seeing as there is a lot of interest in fictional leagues, I thought I'd try creating a simple team name generator.

It's probably obvious from the screenshot, but you select a state/region from each drop-down menu and then the Generator randomly chooses a city from that state as well as a random team name. The layout is very rough at the moment (the logo is far too large!) and I think I'd go for maybe 20 or 30 teams to generate at a time:



Would there be any interest in this being developed into a full-blown app? I had started creating the tool just as a way of learning a bit of C#, but I'm now considering developing it more fully (at the moment, I just entered three US states and a couple of team names). If there is interest then I'll keep working on it by expanding the number of countries/regions, cities and team names (ideally I want a few hundred team names for each language - e.g. English, Russian, French (Quebec cities would use French names), etc).

[Strelka]

Originally Posted by archibalduk

I was having a mess around with C# today as it seems easier than C++ in terms of designing graphical user interfaces (I'm a novice programmer and most of my apps have been C++ command line tools - mostly editors and patches for EHM). Seeing as there is a lot of interest in fictional leagues, I thought I'd try creating a simple team name generator.

It's probably obvious from the screenshot, but you select a state/region from each drop-down menu and then the Generator randomly chooses a city from that state as well as a random team name. The layout is very rough at the moment (the logo is far too large!) and I think I'd go for maybe 20 or 30 teams to generate at a time:



Would there be any interest in this being developed into a full-blown app? I had started creating the tool just as a way of learning a bit of C#, but I'm now considering developing it more fully (at the moment, I just entered three US states and a couple of team names). If there is interest then I'll keep working on it by expanding the number of countries/regions, cities and team names (ideally I want a few hundred team names for each language - e.g. English, Russian, French (Quebec cities would use French names), etc).

Yes, if you need help with Russian stuff I can help. Would Russian team for instance have team name first followed by the city?

[geckon]

I can probably help with Czech stuff. Czech teams' names usually look like "HC/HK Name City" but it's not a rule - there are other names too.

[RoPa]

That is a great idea Archi!

I look forward to using it for the game!

[Empach]

Seems like a cool tool, I imagine a lot of people here will find it useful. Not sure if I'll you it, I'm not sure how likely I am to delve into fictional leagues.

I use C# professionally and I quite like it. Haven't used C++ yet.

[geckon]

When you are on generating - don't you accidentally have a piece of software for generating player names? Ideally ready to use FHM name list format as input I'd like to test my Czech name list.

[archibalduk]

Thanks for the positive response and offers of help.

Originally Posted by Strelka

Would Russian team for instance have team name first followed by the city?

The tool can handle both <City Name><Team Name> and <Team Name><City Name>. For example, for the English nameset, it generates names such as Detroit Blaze and Mighty Ducks of Detroit, etc.

Originally Posted by geckon

I can probably help with Czech stuff. Czech teams' names usually look like "HC/HK Name City" but it's not a rule - there are other names too.

Originally Posted by Strelka

Yes, if you need help with Russian stuff I can help. Would Russian team for instance have team name first followed by the city?

Yeah, that would be great - thank you! If you do find time to help, I'd be grateful if the lists of team names could be put into two separate files: One list with names that go before the city name and one list with names that go after the city name. With regards to the Czech names, I don't mind whether or not you include HC/HK with the team name - whichever way makes it sound more authentic.

Originally Posted by Empach

Seems like a cool tool, I imagine a lot of people here will find it useful. Not sure if I'll you it, I'm not sure how likely I am to delve into fictional leagues.

I use C# professionally and I quite like it. Haven't used C++ yet.

I'm not likely to delve into fictional leagues, either. But it's a useful way of learning a bit of C#! Trying to figure out how to draw a window using C++ Win32 forms is a nightmare. I guess perhaps that's why the FHM guys use QT instead.

[archibalduk]

Originally Posted by geckon

When you are on generating - don't you accidentally have a piece of software for generating player names? Ideally ready to use FHM name list format as input I'd like to test my Czech name list.

Do you mean just for testing purposes or for creating a whole team of fictional players for use in FHM?

[geckon]

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Yeah, that would be great - thank you! If you do find time to help, I'd be grateful if the lists of team names could be put into two separate files: One list with names that go before the city name and one list with names that go after the city name. With regards to the Czech names, I don't mind whether or not you include HC/HK with the team name - whichever way makes it sound more authentic.

HC/HK (or different acronym) is quite common thing in Czech (and Slovak at least) team names. After very quick look at eliteprospects.com I see that it appears in Germany, Austria, Latvia, Hungary, Poland, Croatia, Kazakhstan, etc. as well (even not that often).
Would it be possible to generate team name like "Acronym NameBefore City NameAfter"? With possibility of missing acronym (by certain chance or because it's not used in given country). Or the way to go is to duplicate all the names in the name file (like there would be Tigers, HC Tigers, HK Tigers,...)?

Also Czech teams sometimes use names where city name is used in its different form. I don't know if you see what I mean so I'll show an example:
Tigers Russia vs. Russian Tigers (fictional example). The real example is HC Berounští medvědi (which means Bears of Beroun - Beroun is city). But this would probably be too difficult and it's not that common.

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Do you mean just for testing purposes or for creating a whole team of fictional players for use in FHM?

Just for testing purposes. The use case is to generate bunch of names and look at them to check if they look real. I could write something by myself but if something like that exist it will be easier for me and I can save time

[geckon]

Oops, wrong thread. I should really go to the bed ;-)

[archibalduk]

Originally Posted by geckon

Would it be possible to generate team name like "Acronym NameBefore City NameAfter"? With possibility of missing acronym (by certain chance or because it's not used in given country). Or the way to go is to duplicate all the names in the name file (like there would be Tigers, HC Tigers, HK Tigers,...)?

Adding/omitting the HC/HK is not a problem. I'll take a look at the top few Czech leagues and see how many teams include and miss the acronym. Then I'll set the probability of an acronym accordingly.

<NameBefore City NameAfter> is possible. Would the <NameAfter> be the same list as the <City NameAfter> team names? In that case we'd need something like three lists:

1. <NameBefore> for teams named <NameBefore City>
2. <NameBefore> for teams named <NameBefore City NameAfter>
3. <NameAfter> for teams named <NameBefore City NameAfter> and <City NameAfter>

If you're happy to produce some lists of names then I'll ensure the Generator can accommodate those types of names. Perhaps if we get started with just the Czech names first. Then I'll have a better idea of how this format of names will work.

Originally Posted by geckon

Also Czech teams sometimes use names where city name is used in its different form. I don't know if you see what I mean so I'll show an example:
Tigers Russia vs. Russian Tigers (fictional example). The real example is HC Berounští medvědi (which means Bears of Beroun - Beroun is city). But this would probably be too difficult and it's not that common.

Yeah I know what you mean. There's a similar thing with the Finnish teams because the city name changes in the possessive form (according to Wikipedia, it is called the "Possessive affix"). I don't think there's much I can do about this at this stage. I think we just roll with the city names.

Originally Posted by geckon

Just for testing purposes. The use case is to generate bunch of names and look at them to check if they look real. I could write something by myself but if something like that exist it will be easier for me and I can save time

It looks like Jeff's got you covered there with his spreadsheet. I don't have any tool myself, but it would be easy to write. I can use the csv parser I wrote for my EHM Updater tool - which would be half the code already written. I'm happy to write one should anybody request it.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Adding/omitting the HC/HK is not a problem. I'll take a look at the top few Czech leagues and see how many teams include and miss the acronym. Then I'll set the probability of an acronym accordingly.

Great, thanks. I can get those numbers for you if you want. For example eliteprospects.com doesn't have precise team names in the DB. They may reflect the acronym well though, I am not sure.

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Yeah I know what you mean. There's a similar thing with the Finnish teams because the city name changes in the possessive form (according to Wikipedia, it is called the "Possessive affix"). I don't think there's much I can do about this at this stage. I think we just roll with the city names.

I agree - it's quite rare anyway. We can add it later if we want to.

Originally Posted by archibalduk

<NameBefore City NameAfter> is possible. Would the <NameAfter> be the same list as the <City NameAfter> team names? In that case we'd need something like three lists:

1. <NameBefore> for teams named <NameBefore City>
2. <NameBefore> for teams named <NameBefore City NameAfter>
3. <NameAfter> for teams named <NameBefore City NameAfter> and <City NameAfter>

If you're happy to produce some lists of names then I'll ensure the Generator can accommodate those types of names. Perhaps if we get started with just the Czech names first. Then I'll have a better idea of how this format of names will work.

I didn't quite understand what you meant here with those lists, I'm afraid. Anyway I checked it out and there are only a few teams that have name like <City NameAfter> and those that have such name are either the case of Berounští medvědi or NameAfter is just a year (of foundation I believe).
Therefore we could very well go just with type <NameBefore City NameAfter> where NameAfter could (for now) be just a year and it would be quite rare (I'll get you those numbers along with the acronym numbers). With future versions we can improve that but for now it will emulate the reality well I guess. Do you agree?

Originally Posted by archibalduk

It looks like Jeff's got you covered there with his spreadsheet. I don't have any tool myself, but it would be easy to write. I can use the csv parser I wrote for my EHM Updater tool - which would be half the code already written. I'm happy to write one should anybody request it.

As I responded to Jeff I'm good for now, but thanks for the offer. Possible problems will show up in the game I guess and the lists can be improved anytime.

[drewst18]

Personally have little interest in this tool itself as I am a NHL type but like the idea that the game isn't out yet and we already have people creating tools to improve the game.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by geckon

I can get those numbers for you if you want.

Here it is...

I looked at Extraliga (top-level league) and the 1st and the 2nd minors. That means 58 teams.

Acronyms usage:
- 38x HC
- 8x no acronym
- 2x SK
- 1x BK, IHC, SHC, SHK, VSK, VHK, SKLH, TJ SC, KLH, LHK

Personally I would add also HK, TJ and SC to the acronyms "database" as they are possible to be used to.


NameAfter usage:
- Two teams are the case similar to Berounští medvědi (we won't reflect that.)
- Three teams has a year as NameAfter


Notes:
- 20 teams has name containing only an acronym and city (like HC Olomouc)
- There are quite big differences between leagues. In Extraliga only HC or no acronym (4x) are used and all 14 use NameBefore (so nothing like HC Olomouc). In lower leagues there is a bigger chance to have only acronym and city and also bigger chance of having other acronyms than HC. I'm not saying you should reflect that and make differences according to level of league. I just note interesting fact and let you to react (or no) on that.
- There is no team named only with the city name.

Would you like to gather any more data?

[geckon]

Originally Posted by drewst18

Personally have little interest in this tool itself as I am a NHL type but like the idea that the game isn't out yet and we already have people creating tools to improve the game.

Maybe surprisingly I may never actually use this tool. But maybe I will want to use it at some point and anyway I'd like it to support Czech team names and like to help with that.

[archibalduk]

Geckon - Thanks ever so much for all of your help. I really appreciate it.

I'm going to get the English and French names done and then I'll take a look at the Czech names. The reason for me starting with the English and French first is because I have knowledge of them and so it'll be a great way of testing things (and therefore ensuring that we have a solid framework for when we get started on the Czech/Russian leagues where there may be a little more complication).

I expect when I get round to the Czech names, I will have more questions for you.

Before I get the names entered, I'm entering the city names first. So far I've done about 27 of the 50 US states - that's approx 1,860 cities in total. I'll then move on to Canada, UK, Czech Republic and Russia.

[geckon]

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Geckon - Thanks ever so much for all of your help. I really appreciate it.

No problem, I am happy to help. Besides it makes waiting for FHM easier

Originally Posted by archibalduk

I'm going to get the English and French names done and then I'll take a look at the Czech names. The reason for me starting with the English and French first is because I have knowledge of them and so it'll be a great way of testing things (and therefore ensuring that we have a solid framework for when we get started on the Czech/Russian leagues where there may be a little more complication).

What is your method for creating the name lists? I'd like to help with the Czech ones but I don't know where to start. I have the following ideas:
- Look at the existing teams and add usable names. (Czech names often contain names of companies like Mountfield - are those also requested?)
- Look at the existing teams in other sports.
- Look at the existing foreign teams and translate suitable names.
- Look at animals - they are quite popular in team naming.
- Come up with other names that I consider usable...

If you know any more systematic way tell me please

Originally Posted by archibalduk

I expect when I get round to the Czech names, I will have more questions for you.

Of course, you can ask me anytime.

Originally Posted by archibalduk

Before I get the names entered, I'm entering the city names first. So far I've done about 27 of the 50 US states - that's approx 1,860 cities in total. I'll then move on to Canada, UK, Czech Republic and Russia.

Don't developers have files with the cities? Maybe it could be used. I can also help with the Czech cities.

[Orioles1966]

Does this mean that there will be fictional leagues because you are calling it Fantasy League City Generator?

[geckon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1966

Does this mean that there will be fictional leagues because you are calling it Fantasy League City Generator?

This is just a standalone tool which anybody will be able to download and use to generate names of teams. The user can use those names in game after that. But it won't cooperate with the game directly. So it doesn't indicate any features of the game. At least if I understand it right.

[Orioles1966]

Originally Posted by geckon

This is just a standalone tool which anybody will be able to download and use to generate names of teams. The user can use those names in game after that. But it won't cooperate with the game directly. So it doesn't indicate any features of the game. At least if I understand it right.

Its a good tool to have because after starting up 400-500 teams,I start too run out of team names.