Historical Drafting

[TopeHabFan]

In the historical mode, how will the draft logic play out? Will guys like Datsyuk still be regarded as late round gems, or will the late round players get bumped up in the draft rankings? Vice versa for those who drafted high and were promptly busts.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by TopeHabFan

In the historical mode, how will the draft logic play out? Will guys like Datsyuk still be regarded as late round gems, or will the late round players get bumped up in the draft rankings? Vice versa for those who drafted high and were promptly busts.

The latter, so in 1998 Datsyuk is a candidate for #1 overall. It's going to be difficult enough to make the AI competitive against a player with perfect knowledge of the future without weighing it down even further by making it waste first-rounders on Ray Martyniuk and Daniel Tkaczuk.

[grindline]

Originally Posted by JeffR

The latter, so in 1998 Datsyuk is a candidate for #1 overall. It's going to be difficult enough to make the AI competitive against a player with perfect knowledge of the future without weighing it down even further by making it waste first-rounders on Ray Martyniuk and Daniel Tkaczuk.

That makes perfect sense. However does this mean there is no way of drafting a late round gem at all? If the game is ordered so that all of the players of any potential quality go early does it make the latter rounds pointless? I guess I'm trying to ascertain whether or not there are some players with huge potential who don't obviously look that great.

I agree that hindsight shouldn't give humans an unfair advantage but I would hope that both human and AI GMs can still have draft steals.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by grindline

That makes perfect sense. However does this mean there is no way of drafting a late round gem at all? If the game is ordered so that all of the players of any potential quality go early does it make the latter rounds pointless? I guess I'm trying to ascertain whether or not there are some players with huge potential who don't obviously look that great.

I agree that hindsight shouldn't give humans an unfair advantage but I would hope that both human and AI GMs can still have draft steals.

In the historical game? No, there's really no way of having late-round steals there, since the development outcomes are known, at least in broad terms. There'll be some variability in development, the amount depending on the options chosen during setup, but it wouldn't be much of a historical game if ratings developed so randomly that, say, Craig Coxe could turn into a first-line NHLer.

[dave1927p]

Does that mean alexandre daigle does not go first overall? Or The Flames or another foolish team dont select Trevor Kidd over Martin Brodeur. I dont think im a fan of that decision. Id like to see the players get drafted and ranked in or around where they were ranked at the time. In my mind that player during that season is still performing the same then they were in real life at that time so scouts shouldnt see them differently. Politics were certainly involved in russians being drafted so late back then too. Now all this is ignored.

I completely understand the reasoning for this but at the same time im alittle disappointed. It was one of those choices for either realism or fun. This seems to drastically changes the historical mode and makes it more of a fictional what-if mode.




Does the game show the players real life stats? Ive mentioned it before but seeing as how there are no junior leagues it would be cool to blend in their real life stats during those times to their in game stats. This would only apply for junior but would make it appear that they actually did play. That seems better then having nothing appear for their in game junior stats.

[Perfecto]

Jeff - surely like OOTP talent changes are in there even in a historical mode, and could therefore make a guy who was drafted late in the draft into a better player than his initial draft position implies?

... and don't hate on Craig Coxe!

To Dave above - you can make the players appear on their draft teams if realism is what you desire.

[dave1927p]

Originally Posted by Perfecto

To Dave above - you can make the players appear on their draft teams if realism is what you desire.

But without a draft it's not so much realism. I do understand the decision for this but i was looking forward to stealing all the top picks in the 90s.

Never played Historical mode in ootp but is that how it works for it too?

[tward13]

Originally Posted by dave1927p

But without a draft it's not so much realism. I do understand the decision for this but i was looking forward to stealing all the top picks in the 90s.

Never played Historical mode in ootp but is that how it works for it too?

Usually two different options. Have new players appear on a draft list and run draft, or have all players debut with the real teams they started with.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Perfecto

Jeff - surely like OOTP talent changes are in there even in a historical mode, and could therefore make a guy who was drafted late in the draft into a better player than his initial draft position implies?

Well, if you set up the game at the start to use the same development model as the non-historical game (as opposed to recalculating the ratings year-by-year), yeah, there's going to be the possibility of a player getting better or worse than he was historically.

But that's going to be a fairly rare event. Even on the most liberal settings, the vast majority of the time players will turn out similarly to real life. So that's going to make the drafts in the historical game a lot more optimized than they were in real life, unless the AI drafting is completely stupid.

That said, I can think of a way to get the drafts to run in a more 'historical' way if there's really a demand for it. But it's not going to be possible to do in this version as it would mean a bunch of additional data entry for me and I've got more than enough of that to deal with already.

... and don't hate on Craig Coxe!

I had to watch Bill Laforge try to replace Tiger Williams with him, I'll hate all I want.

[grindline]

In terms of historical and general drafting something I would like to see in the future is that the AI is variable from team to team. A GM and scouts with good ratings at spotting hidden gems should be able to find late round steals more often than a lower rated equivalent at another team.

That way a good GM will find a Datsyuk type a round earlier than a poor one.

[Hoiles]

Wondering how historical draft is implemented for FHM. In baseball, it's based on the players' MLB debut year (which you can tweak with an altered database). Is it also like that in FHM... so players might be much older than 18 when drafted? Will there also be the odd undrafted guy (St Louis,etc) who slips through the cracks?

[Perfecto]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Well, if you set up the game at the start to use the same development model as the non-historical game (as opposed to recalculating the ratings year-by-year), yeah, there's going to be the possibility of a player getting better or worse than he was historically.

But that's going to be a fairly rare event. Even on the most liberal settings, the vast majority of the time players will turn out similarly to real life.

That sounds fair enough to me - we haven't really talked much about talents etc and how they would work, let alone development models and talent changes, but this sounds more than fair.