Fictional Leagues in FHM

[Sebastian Palkowski]

People seem to be disappointed with "Fictional Leagues" missing from the Feature List we posted.

To be honest I'm a bit lost as what people expect from FHM in regards to "Fictional Leagues". Please do not answer "same as OOTP", more helpful would be examples of fictional games you would want to create.

[Stat]

I don't really have a ball in this court as I'm not a fan of fictional leagues and I don't really get the frustration either since it's the first version, but from what I gather, users would like the ability to create a universe.

For example, they start up the "universe mode". They can start by adding a league. They add the league, choose the rules, divisions, and teams in this league. For each team, they can create the team, and assign players. After each league is done, they select finish. They can either continue and have a universe in which only one league exists or add additional leagues with different customization options and different teams/players.

What I don't understand is what the users would want in terms of functionality. Like if I have 4 leagues, what happens to everyone outside the league? Is it one giant FA pool? Do they want a giant FA pool of random players?

If this mode comes in down the line, one interesting idea would be the idea of online sharing. I guess you could upload the save file but it would be a neat idea for me to be able to access a giant hub where I could download other users uploaded universes or games.

For example, if I have created a "baseball" universe where each NHL team is based off a MLB club and players, I could upload that online for other people to try and rate. Alas, that's a feature way down the line if it's ever added but was off the top of my head.

Hopefully, someone can correct me or add to my post if they feel what I said was right/wrong from a user standpoint.

[MooK881]

Basically, for me, I don't need multiple leagues or anything l
too complicated for this first version. I am wondering if something like ootps fictional baseball advanced mode will be available at league creation so I can easily tweak the rules, name my teams, setup conferences and playoffs and league schedule etc.
Is something like this included? Or as an alternative an easy way to edit existing league structure and rules from one of the startups?

[Afino]

I would just want the ability to play with completely fictional players in an real-world setup. That's all!


Yes, the easy answer is "sim 25 years into the future and you'll have that", but I want to start from scratch.

[Cryomaniac]

The problem, of course, is that "the same as OOTP" is a reasonable target. I appreciate that it's not a helpful suggestion though.

I don't know the league structures of all the playable leagues in the game (I only really know about the NHL and EIHL), but it would be nice to be able to use any we want (within reason).

As long as it's possible to edit a league's structure (and everything else, obviously, but it's been said you can do that already) before starting the game, and use fictional players from the start, then it's on it's way there, but something like OOTP's league creation screen is obviously preferable.

Multiple leagues in the same "universe" (i/e league file) are presumably possible, if the system is based in any way on OOTP's.

As I said in the other threads, the worry is that without a custom league creation system similar to OOTP existing from the start it may well become increasingly difficult to add it as every version without it goes by.

[dave1927p]

My idea of a fictional mode is where leagues like the NHL, KHL, SWE, etc are all non-existant. They are all wiped from the hockey world as well as their players.

The user then creates which leagues, professional, amateur etc that they want to occupy their game world. If you do not create a russian league, according to your game, russian hockey does not exist. There will be players from russia that can be drafted (if the user wants) but they'd have no stats.

If the user wants two top professional North american leagues, then they create them. Do we have the ability to add leagues to the modern day mode? If yes, then do we have the ability to start the league in a different year, say the 1950s? If that's yes too then this already exists in a way.


I want to create a top north american league that starts in the 50s with fictional players. Next create 3 to 4 north american leagues that are both semi independent and independant along with european pro leagues. No players can leave their continent. Then over time i'd evolve some of leagues where some will get stronger and others weaker and possibly fold. Can 1 of my one time minor leagues compete with the NHL? In my game world, maybe. (of course i'd be forcing it to do so but that doesn't matter)

This would be my alternate world up until the 70s where i will have european players come over to the NHL. Sounds similar to real life? Only i am in God Mode changing my world as i see fit. Similar to Historical Mode and similar to modern day mode but yet very different.

Now to get some sleep because i don't even know what i'm talking about anymore.

[Antonin]

By "fictional league" I mean the ability to create, for example, a league consisting of 4 US teams, 4 Canadian teams, 4 Western European teams and 4 Eastern European teams. I should be able to locate teams in any cities I want. For example, my city, Cleveland, Ohio, does not have a NHL team in real life. I might want to create a fictional league where Cleveland has a NHL-level team. They might wind up in a playoff series against Stockholm, or Moscow, or Budapest.

In my fictional league I would love to have the option to have all fictional players, with a way to easily create new fictional players.

[Blackhawks]

Originally Posted by Afino

I would just want the ability to play with completely fictional players in an real-world setup. That's all!


Yes, the easy answer is "sim 25 years into the future and you'll have that", but I want to start from scratch.

I totally agree. An option to begin the game with totally fictional players would be excellent.

[dave1927p]

Here's my checklist:

• The ability to create leagues from scratch and/or delete leagues - pro, juniors, international etc
• The ability to evolve leagues - Rules, teams, league reputation, average salaries. (force the league in Sweden to evolve in time and make it better than the KHL)
• The ability to start the season at any start date.

Are all these possible? If yes, then all that would need to be done is wipe out the current day world. (i make that sound easy but we all know it's not)

to be more clear what i personally want is to play in an (alternate) historical mode but with the freedom of modern day mode, total freedom.

I'm going to stop now because i don't really know what i'm talking about.

[Corsairs]

For me, fictional leagues are the make-or-break feature for jumping on the FHM bandwagon. I'm afraid that "same as OOTP" is probably the best description that can be given for what people are seeking here - OOTP handles fictional league about as well as you could hope - but I'll try to offer a little extra detail.

Fictional league functionality involves allowing users to wipe out all preexisting real-world leagues and start in a "clean universe" which they then fill with new leagues of their own design. They set up all the details of these leagues, including (but not limited to):

• Structure (e.g. league name and country or countries of operation, team names and locations, number of teams/divisions/conferences)
• Associations (e.g. independent, minor league attached to a parent league, college league feeding a professional league, etc.)
• Players (e.g. generation of names, stats, and ratings for new players, option for inaugural draft upon league creation)
• On-ice rules (e.g. length/number of periods, handling of icing, legality of two-line passes, etc.)
• Contract rules (e.g. length and terms of entry level contracts, years until arbitration eligibility and free agency, maximum length of contracts, maximum permissible year-to-year variability of salaries)
• Financials (e.g. typical salary ranges for different player quality tiers, typical size of revenue streams like gate and media contracts)
• Rinks (e.g. seating capacity, per-team ticket prices)
• Hometown details (e.g. market size, short-term fan interest, long-term fan loyalty)
• Artwork (e.g. player pictures, custom uniforms, league and team logos)

By no means must every last item listed above appear in version 1. I think we're all reasonable enough to understand that FHM is an evolving product and that fictional league support will grow and develop in time, like everything else. Yet I would argue that support on some level is extremely important.

Why? Because many users will not be content to play in pre-packaged leagues; they will want to put their stamp on their own personal hockey universe. That's where you get the "pride of ownership" that leads to users who are so enthusiastic over your product that they will purchase version after version just so they can keep sharing dynasty reports from their unique creation with other members of the community.

Without a doubt, modern-day and historical league support are vital to the success of FHM, just as support for those kinds of league are important to OOTP. Yet it is undeniable that OOTP's robust fictional league support is one of the primary reasons that the game has achieved its current level of popularity. Many of OOTP's most popular online leagues are wholly fictional in nature. Strip fictional league support from OOTP and you would have a vastly diminished product with a vastly diminished reach. I would hate to see that happen to such a promising product like FHM. There are many features that can wait until later versions; this is one that is really called for out of the box in version 1.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

To be honest I'm a bit lost as what people expect from FHM in regards to "Fictional Leagues". Please do not answer "same as OOTP", more helpful would be examples of fictional games you would want to create.

There have already been some excellent replies in this thread to the above, but let me add my own thoughts on the subject.

As a practical matter, no one should expect FHM to be able to match the degree to which OOTP allows the user to indulge their imagination when it comes to creating wholly fictional leagues and universes—after all, OOTP has had many versions to develop its fictional league capabilities, while this is FHM's first edition. What I think most users are looking for is the way to, at least in some fashion, indulge their imaginations when it comes to creating a hockey league and universe in a way that doesn't require lengthy editing of the game's files/databases. It should ideally be something offered directly in the game's menus and screens.

For example, maybe someone wants to create a universe where the NHL never existed. They instead wish to create their own sort of alternate history, where the U.S. and Canada each has their own domestic hockey league (possibly with associated minor and junior leagues), and the champions of each then play off for a continental title. The user being able to do this via in-game menus and selections is better than if they can only do by editing various game files, which in turn is vastly better than not being able to do it at all.

I think folks are looking for some sort of indication of (a) what degree they can indulge their imagination when it comes to creating partially or wholly imaginary hockey universes, and (b) how complicated it'll be for them to create such hockey universes, assuming they can do so.

[fireholder]

Some may want to simply edit current universe to fill their demands. Clearly we need hundreds of minor and junior leagues and creating them all would be beyond tedious. so automation or universe editing would be great.

For the means of the league I run (and consequently of 100+ potential FHM buyers) we need to be able to run one ~12 team league (all human GMs) and a minor league to that league, all human GMs (I hope there isn't a small limit on the number of human GMs!!!!)

In addition we would want some very basic developmental leagues. But that's it. An entire universe wouldn't suit us and we only need so have a very finite number of players even in our database.

We'd most need:
1) determining league names, structures, rules. this would include a lot of what Corsairs said, and also include scheduling. roster size, lineup size (would be nice to play 3 d pairs and 3 forward pairs in some cases.
2) minor/major affiliations as he also touched on would be great and needed to define.
3) on ice rules as touched on, also the options regarding fines and suspensions

basically we already have the names and abilities of 500 players that need to be inputted to their proper teams. we want to be able to pick the league structure (2 conferences, 4 divisions etc etc) and how often teams play members of their own conference/division etc. how the playoffs operate (series length, seedings)and as a bonus maybe trophy names and such.

i'll probably think of more.

[Methodz]

Not worried about this at all, pretty sure it's something that can be patched in eventually. Not that I personally care about it so much..

[thirdsaint]

Originally Posted by MooK881

Basically, for me, I don't need multiple leagues or anything l
too complicated for this first version. I am wondering if something like ootps fictional baseball advanced mode will be available at league creation so I can easily tweak the rules, name my teams, setup conferences and playoffs and league schedule etc.
Is something like this included? Or as an alternative an easy way to edit existing league structure and rules from one of the startups?

Yeah, this is the same for me along with what other people said. Just the ability to make my own league, have my own team names, fictional players etc. and act like the NHL doesn't exist (although I'd use all their rules, ha). I don't even really care if there's a minor league system attached in the first iteration.

[Dark Horse]

In the first offering:
i would want an option to set the league structure.
i would want to be able to have fictional teams (preferably in fictional cities)
i would want fictional players that could be generated from year to year.

[Antonin]

It would be very difficult to make the case for fictional leagues better than Corsairs and LGO have, but let me add one little thing: for me, having the ability to create a fictional league and *also* to have a "can't get fired" mode is essential.

I don't follow hockey. I haven't for at least 30 years. So, the modern NHL really doesn't interest me. But I would be interested in a text-based hockey management sim if I could run my own team, my own way, for as long as I want, without the possibility of getting fired, the way I can do in OOTP baseball.

I play sports management sims for fun, and for me, running my little make believe sports universe my own way is very fun. I want to run a hockey team based in Cleveland, my home town, not one in New York.

[The Game]

Originally Posted by Sebastian Palkowski

People seem to be disappointed with "Fictional Leagues" missing from the Feature List we posted.

To be honest I'm a bit lost as what people expect from FHM in regards to "Fictional Leagues". Please do not answer "same as OOTP", more helpful would be examples of fictional games you would want to create.

Same as OOTP. Ability to create a league of 2-1000 teams on any planet I can conceive of. Ability to create players in anyway I can think of. Have the Heinsohn Markus' of Rahtland play the Chicago Blackhawks for the overall associated playoffs. Draft and trade for players. Ability to edit the world default.xml in game would be preferred. Being able to use my edited OOTP world default.xml would be best.

[Cole]

John (Corsairs) pretty much nailed it, but count me in as well as someone who would be interested in this game likely only if it had a fictional component. Recreating the NHL doesn't interest me greatly.

What I envisioned when I first heard of this game is creating a "world" league... Some teams from powerful hockey nations like Canada, U.S., Russia, Sweden, Finland, with player creation modifier abilities to allow players from different countries to be of different skill level on average. Then have championship teams from each of the hockey nations come together to play a true world championship.

Of course I'm sure that might not all be available in year one. I would say however that being able to edit league structure, complete team info, playoff format, etc, would be the basics I would want for sure involved in making a fictional league for the first version. Of course, having fictional players to start would be needed as well.... I don't *think* that would be an issue, since if the game allows you to play into the future there are going to be fictional players anyway ...

A hockey equivalent of Facegen would also be great to add immersion for the first year of the game, but I would understand if that's not a feature either, since I understand it comes with a significant cost.

[pens66]

I kinda like the idea that the NHL was pretty much independent from European hockey in the early days. So my idea of fictional leagues is pretty much the simple, fast way how to create a fictional universe in OOTP 10 (the version I have): Create a major league with maybe AAA and AA affiliated leagues, set up rules etc. and start your game. Draft prospects don't necessarily have to play in a junior league, a simple draft pool like in OOTP would be enough.
I would be very happy if that was doable.

[Stinson]

I know you don't want to hear "same as OOTP", but I have to say "same as OOTP". In fact, I had actually been assuming that FHM was already going to work similarly to OOTP in this regard, where starting a game gives you a fictional world. You then customize the country, conferences, divisions, teams, team names, league rules, league options, etc., etc. I thought the real-world leagues would be provided through a quick start file, or as templates when creating a 'custom major league game'.