A full Staff Please

[RchW]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Not sure where you are getting FM from? The reason why coaches should have opinions is because they shouldn't always be the same type of coach. It just makes things a bit more uniform. After all, it's your job as the GM to decipher who's opinion is valuable. A bullpen coach could be promoted to a pitching coach, or might even become a minor league manager. Coaches should not be "pre-locked" into the type of role or job they have. They should be hired based on their abilities. Maybe there is a coach that's good at a lot of different things, and is on track for a manager's job at some point?


Edit: in fact, I think the coach/manager ratings should be gone, and it should be handled in terms of philosophy, strategy preference, past players coached, history, etc...

It was written exactly how FM works. Coincidence? Anyway in FM the coaches almost always disagree. So if coach a wants player b to take extra corner practice coach c doesn't agree. Too binary for me. I could buy into the concept of deciphering different opinions if I was dealing with fully formed personalities but that is not going to happen unless one thinks Markus is going to hire 2-3 programmers to produce complex personalities that evolve. I sure hope not.

This would also take the game away from daily game play and focus on non-game play. I don't see that as useful in a baseball sim. I'd submit that 90% of baseball coaching occurs outside the season ie spring training, fall leagues, instructional leagues where less games are played and practice is the norm. During the season baseball coaches maintain some players and perhaps focus on one or two specifics but frankly are more involved with implementing strategy in-game to help win. If I wanted coaches (I don't) to be more complex I'd like to see skills like "good judge of baserunning", "knows the entire league's outfield arms", "knows what pitchers can be run on" etc. I'd like this because it pertains to the game being played as opposed to dead time.

YMMV

[Le Grande Orange]

Before additional staff are added, I'd personally rather see more done with player-managers. The player-manager was fairly common in the earlier years of baseball.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by RchW

It was written exactly how FM works. Coincidence? Anyway in FM the coaches almost always disagree. So if coach a wants player b to take extra corner practice coach c doesn't agree. Too binary for me. I could buy into the concept of deciphering different opinions if I was dealing with fully formed personalities but that is not going to happen unless one thinks Markus is going to hire 2-3 programmers to produce complex personalities that evolve. I sure hope not.

This would also take the game away from daily game play and focus on non-game play. I don't see that as useful in a baseball sim. I'd submit that 90% of baseball coaching occurs outside the season ie spring training, fall leagues, instructional leagues where less games are played and practice is the norm. During the season baseball coaches maintain some players and perhaps focus on one or two specifics but frankly are more involved with implementing strategy in-game to help win. If I wanted coaches (I don't) to be more complex I'd like to see skills like "good judge of baserunning", "knows the entire league's outfield arms", "knows what pitchers can be run on" etc. I'd like this because it pertains to the game being played as opposed to dead time.

YMMV

There isn't even an option to send players to fall or winter leagues. OOTP gives you zero to do as a GM as far as player development is concerned.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

There isn't even an option to send players to fall or winter leagues. OOTP gives you zero to do as a GM as far as player development is concerned.

I agree.

So adding a full staff would just increase the number of people who would have nothing to do.

Perhaps we should lobby for the real problem to be fixed.

[BigbyWolf]

I want less staff not more.

Let me check boxes for extra pitching help or extra hitting help under the staff/coaching page. Like the scout page where I get to select which countries to spend time in. Lets me give a task to my manager.

[PSUColonel]

Why can't coaches offer up opinions on players similar to the way scouts do? I don't see where that is such an issue. IRL coaches always have opinions on players...what what they think they do well, and in what situations they may excel and succeed etc..strengths, weaknesses.

[Isryion]

I don't mind having coaches in the game for those that want them, but for a group that tends to have expectations that the sim follows real life informantion/data the impact of actual coaching is way too nebulous to model, much more so this additional band of personell.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Why can't coaches offer up opinions on players similar to the way scouts do? I don't see where that is such an issue. IRL coaches always have opinions on players...what what they think they do well, and in what situations they may excel and succeed etc..strengths, weaknesses.

But to what end? I can visualize that a certain 3B coach may think that a certain 3B player is a horses ass. The organization and the manager may consider that particular horses ass to be the future at 3B. The not so subtle message to the coach may be, "move on, deal with it".

I'm trying to see the value of this in OOTP. Should it affect the player? Should the team get a few more people thrown out at the plate? I certainly hope not. The horses ass may help me win a WS.

YMMV

[BIG17EASY]

One of the problems with this idea is that not all organizations handle coaches the same way. One team might have a coach on the big league staff dedicated to working with the catchers (Mick Billmeyer in Philly, for instance), whereas a different organization might have a roving catching instructor who spends a week or two at a time with each team in the organization. Or a certain bench coach could also be the guy who works with the outfielders or infielders, or maybe the third base coach or first base coach has those responsibilities. Davey Lopes, who was with the Phillies and now the Dodgers, is a first base coach, but he's also arguably the best baserunning coach in the game. Don Zimmer famously helped Joe Torre manage the bullpen while working as the bench coach in New York.

Plus, there are way too many variables to this scenario to make it worthwhile. For example, say you have a first base coach like Lopes who has the opinion of Player X (since coaching opinions are important to the OP) that he's a really good base runner. How does Markus then code game so the third base coach uses this information from the first base coach to in turn be more aggressive with Player X scoring on hits, sac flies, etc. than Player Y or Player Z?

[BigbyWolf]

I hope this could be more customizable. If they set up OOTPB for full coaching, than I also hope the give me the option of just hiring a manager and a scout.

Even then, just let me set a coaching budget, sliders and check boxes for priorities and I am happy. I hate having 700 coaches where a scout is hired as a trainer and a World Series winning manager hired to do single A the following year.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BIG17EASY

One of the problems with this idea is that not all organizations handle coaches the same way. One team might have a coach on the big league staff dedicated to working with the catchers (Mick Billmeyer in Philly, for instance), whereas a different organization might have a roving catching instructor who spends a week or two at a time with each team in the organization. Or a certain bench coach could also be the guy who works with the outfielders or infielders, or maybe the third base coach or first base coach has those responsibilities. Davey Lopes, who was with the Phillies and now the Dodgers, is a first base coach, but he's also arguably the best baserunning coach in the game. Don Zimmer famously helped Joe Torre manage the bullpen while working as the bench coach in New York.

Plus, there are way too many variables to this scenario to make it worthwhile. For example, say you have a first base coach like Lopes who has the opinion of Player X (since coaching opinions are important to the OP) that he's a really good base runner. How does Markus then code game so the third base coach uses this information from the first base coach to in turn be more aggressive with Player X scoring on hits, sac flies, etc. than Player Y or Player Z?

I agree, we don't need that kind of nuance, but maybe have each of these positions for every team.

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BigbyWolf

I hope this could be more customizable. If they set up OOTPB for full coaching, than I also hope the give me the option of just hiring a manager and a scout.

Even then, just let me set a coaching budget, sliders and check boxes for priorities and I am happy. I hate having 700 coaches where a scout is hired as a trainer and a World Series winning manager hired to do single A the following year.

This is very dumbed down and requires no effort on the part of a virtual GN, and isn't reflective of the way thing are. OOTP is striving to be the "most realistic" baseball sim, not one where features are glossed over and presented as a console game type feature.



EDIT: reminds me of a quote from the RainMan...."let me let you in on a little secret....sliders suck". lol just kidding, but I really would rather see things in detail...provided they work well, and serve actual function for strategy.

[Erik]

Is there a way to currently have coaching on for your main league but not for the sub-leagues? So if I mirror the MLB format can I have coaches for my MLB team but my AAA, AA, A, etc. all be coachless? And I know I can just not hire coaches for my teams but I want the entire league to not have coaches.

If this is not currently an option I'd like to see it in a future version.

[PSUColonel]

no, but why would you not want coaches for your minor league teams? Your player need them for development and it wouldn't be very realistic. Not sure why so many people want to do things in an unrealistic manner which would take away from the GM experience?????

[Erik]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

no, but why would you not want coaches for your minor league teams? Your player need them for development and it wouldn't be very realistic. Not sure why so many people want to do things in an unrealistic manner which would take away from the GM experience?????

I personally don't immerse myself into the Minor leagues that much. I'd prefer to just set a development budget and be done with it. I'm not sure how much the game really takes the coaches ratings into affect.

I also get tired of having so many of my minor league coaches retire and I have to find new ones and there usually aren't very many good coaches in the game.

[soadeathdealer]

I think we need realistic and non realistic features and rules in the game as not all people want to create a realistic league some want to make a league of there own. And dont forget we need to make the game with options to suite as many people as we can to get money to make more ootps

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

no, but why would you not want coaches for your minor league teams? Your player need them for development and it wouldn't be very realistic. Not sure why so many people want to do things in an unrealistic manner which would take away from the GM experience?????

I have absolutely zero interest in the GM experience.

[PSUColonel]

Not sure why you really like OOTP then...if you just want a reproduction of seasons' there are a lot of other products for that.

[David Watts]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Not sure why you really like OOTP then...if you just want a reproduction of seasons' there are a lot of other products for that.

Even fictional? How do they recreate that the doesn't exist?

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Even fictional? How do they recreate that the doesn't exist?

but why would yo just want to replay/sim fictional seasons without acting as a general manager? (but that's up to you) The point is OOTP should try to make you feel like a small cog (with a big job) is a larger world. So suppose you want to simply be the field manager of any given team?...that means you are one part of the staff of that team. You should have coaches, scouts, trainers, GM's and all of that around you, and every team should have this staff. This is part of the immersion of being in a virtual Baseball universe. I'm not sure why people want to fight against this?