Please Fix this

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by BigbyWolf

The issue is that the AI should be protecting first round talent in the draft. There is no benefit to putting this player on the 40 until the AI intends to use him at the big league level. That spot should be used to protect someone else who has more time in.

obviously...I have had a few cases where I have seen a drafted player used at the MLB level the following year. I wonder if the AI intended to do this, but somehow there was a random ratings drop?

[Honorable_Pawn]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

obviously...I have had a few cases where I have seen a drafted player used at the MLB level the following year. I wonder if the AI intended to do this, but somehow there was a random ratings drop?

His currents were published in my dynasty report along with his potentials, so let me go have a look.

[Honorable_Pawn]

Nope, no rating drop from original. He's actually up in currents a bit.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

obviously...I have had a few cases where I have seen a drafted player used at the MLB level the following year. I wonder if the AI intended to do this, but somehow there was a random ratings drop?

I've typically seen it happen with 18-year-olds that have current ratings so low that they wouldn't be seen as anything more than a rookie level player.

[Honorable_Pawn]

There was a thread about OOTP putting players on the 40 without any involvement from the GM. I wasn't sure then and thought that it possibly could have been a mistake by me.



I wonder if these two situations are related? Maybe that one time I noticed this happening on my team that it wasn't a mistake by me???

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by snepp

Exactly. It seems like something is happening with the advanced draftee signing that's causing the teams to immediately place them on the 40 as though they received a major league deal.

I have seen the same thing happening with Advanced Draftee Signing disabled. You can see the impact of this as soon as the draft ends every year, when the Waiver Wire is flooded with players (generally marginal guys, the occasional decent reliever) released by the AI to make room on their 40-man rosters for players that do not need to be on the 40-man yet.

It seems that the AI is putting 1-2 players per team onto the 40-man, and maybe only 1 or 2 of those players is then subsequently being waived. Whatever it is, it is independent of the Advanced Draftee Signing setting.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

I have seen the same thing happening with Advanced Draftee Signing disabled.

Well, so much for that theory then.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by snepp

Well, so much for that theory then.

My Theory:

There are two if-then statements here causing problems, not a lack of any if-then statement causing a problem.

1) Upon drafting, IF a player has sufficiently high potential, THEN that player is added to the 40-man roster. Then the usual AI roster process takes over, releasing/waiving the next least useful player on the 40-man.

2) IF a player has insufficient current ratings, and another player needs to be added to the 40-man roster, THEN the player with lower current ratings is waived or released.

I think the problem may be that the "add to 40-man roster" and "keep on 40-man roster" logic flows may be separated. You need both together to have a coherent roster strategy, and that doesn't seem to be happening here. I'm guessing the issue is that the AI is over-weighting potential and not considering contract requirements when adding new acquisitions to the 40-man. The decisions about who to REMOVE from the 40-man roster is then weighted by current ratings and contract requirements. The contract issues need to be factored into the initial decision, otherwise the correct decision being made later is just exacerbating the problem.

Just my theory.

[snepp]

Originally Posted by JMDurron

My Theory:

Works for me. Now you just need to convince the boss.

[Jupiter]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Is this an isolated occurrence, or is it commonplace? I just checked some of the draftees from my latest draft, but could not find an instance such as this.

Although I can not speak for others, this happens much too often in my league. I usually sim 10-15 games at a time, so I rarely see the Waiver Wire, but I would say that at least once a season I see somebody waived that is a top prospect, simply because their major league options started much too early and they are neither good enough to be on the 25 man roster nor capable of being sent back to the minors.

Although I can not quantify perfectly how often this happens, I can offer the following anecdotal evidence. In my last draft, I chose a total of six players I was interested in prior to the draft (my team was picking 9th). I was able to draft one of the six and then I tracked the others throughout the signing period to see what happened or perhaps if I wanted to make a trade offer once they signed. All six were young (one was 21, the other five were teens) and all were rated one out of 4.0-5.0 potential stars.

Of the five other players, two did not sign despite being drafted in the first round. I know this can happen, but I think the occurrence of this is way too high as well. But that is a different topic for a different thread.

One other (the 21 year old) signed a major league contract and was immediately put on the major league team and placed in the role of utility infielder. By the end of the season he has about 40 ABs and is still 1/5 starts, so it remains to see how badly stunted his growth will be by this move. But I suppose I can blame some of that on his agent.

The remaining two players both signed minor league deals and were placed on the appropriate rookie team, which is exactly what should have happened for such raw players. Except that on the very next day after signing, both were placed on the 40 man roster by their respective teams:

Brandon Billings was signed by Oakland on May 28, then added to the 40-man roster on May 29. He never advanced out of rookie ball and was still a one star player at the end of the season, but he is on the 40-man roster and will run out of options and almost surely be exposed to waivers by the time he is 21.

Dan Hunter was drafted by Cincinnati in the second round and then signed on July 8th, along with the third round pick Von Black. On July 9th, both players were added to the 40-man roster, although this move meant that one player had to be released and one waived and designated for assignment to make room. Hunter stayed at rookie ball throughout the year and ended as a one star player, but will also run out of options and almost surely be waived before he turns 21.

The thing that really bothers me about this is that it gives such a competitive advantage to human players. Of six players I tracked, five had their development delayed and quite possibly ruined by simply going unsigned or having rosters mishandled. As the human player, I gained an advantage in the game simply by being smart enough to not put a player who was years away from tasting the majors or being Rule 5 eligible on the 40-man roster.

It seems as if some relatively simply logic could be put into place to protect against this.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by snepp

Works for me. Now you just need to convince the boss.

Yes indeed. I hope he is reading this...

[andymac]

My guess is that this is an issue involved with the implementation of the new CBA rules. If those rules weren't implemented, this guy probably would have required a major league contract to sign (and thus a spot on the 40-man). With those rules enabled, he isn't getting a major league contract, but the check in the code is still getting activated and so the AI thinks he has to be placed on the 40-man roster.

*Edit* - Or maybe not, Jupiter's post makes me think differently.

[JMDurron]

Originally Posted by andymac

My guess is that this is an issue involved with the implementation of the new CBA rules. If those rules weren't implemented, this guy probably would have required a major league contract to sign (and thus a spot on the 40-man). With those rules enabled, he isn't getting a major league contract, but the check in the code is still getting activated and so the AI thinks he has to be placed on the 40-man roster.

*Edit* - Or maybe not, Jupiter's post makes me think differently.

This happened in my 2012 MLB Quickstart season before the new CBA rules took effect. It also happened (much more often) in OOTP12, so it's not a new phenomenon.