Modern Deadball Era????

Baseballw00t · 09-12-2012, 03:14 PM

I have numerous questions and am new to the game. I have not made any changes at all nor installed mods. I played a few multiyear sims and then finally got going with a long term one with the Padres.

Right now at the end of 2033 and there are a few things about this game that are really bugging me and first and foremost is that it is a dead ball era where the careers of hitters never go past 32.

There are two major issues, because so many pitchers are elite, none of them are piling on wins because so few runs are being scored. Most years nobody in either league will even get more than 13 wins whereas I'll have 2-3 relief pitchers with 10 wins or more because so many games are decided in extra innings or the final parts of the game. I have 1 pitcher with a career era of 2.3 over 10 years, averaging 200 Ks a year and in that 10 year fully healthy career has a total of 82 wins (made playoffs 8/10 years so these were good teams), never surpassing more than 12 in a season. Furthermore, I've yet to have a guy hit over 30 HR in the entire simulation and each year less than 10 total players in both leagues combined will get more than 30 or 100 RBI. Most playoff teams I go against usually don't have a single player with more than 100 RBI or 30 HR.

You still have 2-3 batters put up a monster year each season (they are almost always ages 24-27) but then they immediately fall off radar because it seems not a single hitter will last past 30. There are dozens of guys earning 15+ million in the minors because they are so awful at the ghastly old age of 33.

Not a single hitter created by the game has had any longevity and the pitchers can't accrue any significant W totals to get into the hall because all the pitching is so amazing and they don't stick out. Not a single game generated player has made it into the hall of fame as a result. The last player to make it into the hall of fame was Joe Mauer in 2026 and its now 2033. I finally drastically reduced the threshold (by about 1/3 to 1/4 for everything) to get in and the only player added since then with the lowered threshold was Drew Storen.

The pitching is so especially dominant at Petco that I can toss in any 1 star pitcher and get a low 3 ERA for the year. To test this theory I even traded for guys who are some of the worst in the league with an era of 4.5 (yes, a starter with an ERA of 4 something is one of the worst in the league in this deadball era) and then on my team they pitch 3.5. The Petco splits are insane as my average hitter split is .280/.200 and if I have more than 2 players in my starting lineup hit better than .230 at home then its cause for joy. The same goes with Colorado as that roster will usually have an average ERA a point or two higher than the league average and their lineup will contain half of the 30 HR and .300 BA hitter in the entire league.

I think the ballpark has way too strong an effect. Colorado should not roster 5/10 best hitters in the league each year. Nor should every other year my Padre's pitching staff as a group have an ERA below 3.

I have specifically tested this by trading for elite hitters still in their prime at 27 or 28 and then they hit .235 17 70 70 for me after averaging .300 35 100 100 the past 3 years. I then trade them off to another team and they suddenly regain their old form. Then again they fall apart again a year or two later because the simulator seems to think nobody over the age of 30 can no longer play defense or hit a baseball. That career arc is pretty typical for an MVP and mentioned in further detail next paragraph.

I feel the longevity of players is ruined and rarely do you have an all star over the age of 30 or an MVP above 27. The MVP and Rookie of the Year has been won by the same player in the same year a total of 12 times simming from 2012 to 2033. That is absurd. These 23 year olds will hit 50 home runs as a rookie then regress hitting 40 then 30 then 25 for a couple years before they are washed up by 32. A handful of times the MVP didn't even have 100 RBI...

Hitting is dead, pitching is alive (rarely is there an all star selection with an ERA above 3 because there are so many dominant pitchers) and nobody has a career longevity to ever make it into the hall of fame. How can I fix this?

Also, without going into commissioner mode, what tweaks can I make so that a 35 year old outfielder who is 2 homeruns away from 300 will sign a decent contract? What happens is you get these guys who signed HUGE deals in their prime and then spent the last 2 years of that contract either on the bench or in the minors because they were so awful so they haven't been regular players for 2 years or so and yet they still demand a multi million dollar deal as a half star player. What happens is they'll remain as a free agent for 2-3 years before they finally begin to even consider a reasonable deal and its usually goes down mid season after being free agents for 2-3 years and its a sudden drop from demanding 2 million a year to minor league deal. In my opinion, any player that close to a milestone who hasn't played regularly should not hold out as a free agent for 2 years before signing a deal.

Is this a complete fluke? Did I somehow tweak some settings that resulted in a dead ball era? How can this be avoided? I like having recognizable names in the league and am tired that the CPU won't create any Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols. Gary Sheffied type player who is productive after 30. Fact that nobody has made it into the HOF in 7 years is pretty telling that something is not right...

The Game · 09-12-2012, 06:38 PM

Personally I think that sounds way cool! I didn't know that OOTP would recreate a deadball era. To prevent this though it sounds like you have more/less offense, more/less pitching checked in your evolution options. uncheck them then you get 2012 forever beyond 2012.

Baseballw00t · 09-28-2012, 12:43 AM

I have checked the evolution and confirmed I've left that untouched, this is something that clearly happened on its own.

I also forgot to mention early on around 2015 or so they made a rule change to lower the mound as well because the game felt pitching was too strong yet clearly that has done nothing and pitching has actually been more dominant since.

My main beef isn't the deadball era, its that there are way too few players who are able to sustain abilities high enough to warrant playing after 30 so the average career of an allstar is only about 6-7 years and they thus don't have the longevity to get into the hall of fame. How can I fix that?

Izz · 09-28-2012, 01:16 AM

What are your settings under your League Setup -> Strategy page, and the Player portion of the Player & Picture Options page?

Isryion · 09-28-2012, 02:42 PM

One of the great things about OOTP is that these things can be adjusted and sometimes need to be if you are looking for a certain sort of experience. I'll try and address a them but it sounds like there are a couple of issues.
1) Player careers are too short
2) Hitting is below 2012 levels.
3) Park Factors

1) It's not uncommon to see threads about leagues like yours (especially those that have been in business for several years) where players over 30 just aren't effective. In fact there's a relatively lengthy discussion here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...lb-league.html

Which will lead you to look at aging and random talent modifiers. Adjust these to your liking.

I've found in some cases this issue can be related to injury settings, and that injuries can be too debilitating and stack up quickly, shortening almost every player's career. Most people think Normal is a bit high, but it's worth looking at as this does have an effect on player longevity in your league.

2) You can adjust the statistical numbers to whatever you'd like if you feel they are low in the league setup options. Or, even if they are set to 2012 numbers, you could increase the numbers (maybe using the steroid era numbers for top end comparison) and see how that affects your league.

3) Park factors can be edited. One of my concerns with OOTP is they use recent park factor data, iirc, (which is typically a relatively small sample). Either way, you can bring park factors of parks closer to 1.0 by going in and editing them.

A warning, though. Obviously if you start to adjust all of these factors in one direction for hitters, you might see far more gains than you'd expect. It might be worth recreating your league as a quickstart, making changes and simming several years to see how they are impacting your numbers. Then, return to your league after those trials and see what happens.

Baseballw00t · 10-02-2012, 07:17 AM

Double checked and everything is at the default 1 or 100

However interestingly the actual results from the last season are really telling. Hits, doubles and hit by pitches results were all around where they should be at but home runs and triples where in the 700s, BBs in the 900s and Ks 1200s

Thanks for the links, will start a new league with the new adjustments and switch injuries from normal so they happen less frequently. Makes sense given that each season about a dozen news stories are about people calling their careers over due to injuries.

Thanks a lot, really appreciate the help guys.

Baseballw00t · 10-31-2012, 12:20 AM

thanks guys, i put in the aging modifiers and started over and it worked like a charm, MVPs at 26 are still relevant at 32 and its become a challenge to put together a staff where nobody has an era over 4.

i still have issues when (for example) a pablo sandoval at 39 that can no longer play defense or hit for power but could be a decent pinch hitter (14 contact etc) insists on relinquishing as a free agent for two years because nobody will give him a multi year multi million dollar deal. I eventually signed him for the hell of it at 41 (still hit for average) at an inflated 2 million for one year and he just got angry because I wouldn't start him over my MVP 5 star 1B even though the man could no longer play defense, still gave me a great .315 avg in about 100 at bats but I really think they should work on making star players who are no longer stars just straight up retire more often and/or be willing to accept cheap one year deals and be content with being a role player like Rickey Henderson did in his final years

other than that the changes are great, thanks a ton

09-12-2012, 03:14 PM	#1
Baseballw00t Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Modern Deadball Era???? I have numerous questions and am new to the game. I have not made any changes at all nor installed mods. I played a few multiyear sims and then finally got going with a long term one with the Padres. Right now at the end of 2033 and there are a few things about this game that are really bugging me and first and foremost is that it is a dead ball era where the careers of hitters never go past 32. There are two major issues, because so many pitchers are elite, none of them are piling on wins because so few runs are being scored. Most years nobody in either league will even get more than 13 wins whereas I'll have 2-3 relief pitchers with 10 wins or more because so many games are decided in extra innings or the final parts of the game. I have 1 pitcher with a career era of 2.3 over 10 years, averaging 200 Ks a year and in that 10 year fully healthy career has a total of 82 wins (made playoffs 8/10 years so these were good teams), never surpassing more than 12 in a season. Furthermore, I've yet to have a guy hit over 30 HR in the entire simulation and each year less than 10 total players in both leagues combined will get more than 30 or 100 RBI. Most playoff teams I go against usually don't have a single player with more than 100 RBI or 30 HR. You still have 2-3 batters put up a monster year each season (they are almost always ages 24-27) but then they immediately fall off radar because it seems not a single hitter will last past 30. There are dozens of guys earning 15+ million in the minors because they are so awful at the ghastly old age of 33. Not a single hitter created by the game has had any longevity and the pitchers can't accrue any significant W totals to get into the hall because all the pitching is so amazing and they don't stick out. Not a single game generated player has made it into the hall of fame as a result. The last player to make it into the hall of fame was Joe Mauer in 2026 and its now 2033. I finally drastically reduced the threshold (by about 1/3 to 1/4 for everything) to get in and the only player added since then with the lowered threshold was Drew Storen. The pitching is so especially dominant at Petco that I can toss in any 1 star pitcher and get a low 3 ERA for the year. To test this theory I even traded for guys who are some of the worst in the league with an era of 4.5 (yes, a starter with an ERA of 4 something is one of the worst in the league in this deadball era) and then on my team they pitch 3.5. The Petco splits are insane as my average hitter split is .280/.200 and if I have more than 2 players in my starting lineup hit better than .230 at home then its cause for joy. The same goes with Colorado as that roster will usually have an average ERA a point or two higher than the league average and their lineup will contain half of the 30 HR and .300 BA hitter in the entire league. I think the ballpark has way too strong an effect. Colorado should not roster 5/10 best hitters in the league each year. Nor should every other year my Padre's pitching staff as a group have an ERA below 3. I have specifically tested this by trading for elite hitters still in their prime at 27 or 28 and then they hit .235 17 70 70 for me after averaging .300 35 100 100 the past 3 years. I then trade them off to another team and they suddenly regain their old form. Then again they fall apart again a year or two later because the simulator seems to think nobody over the age of 30 can no longer play defense or hit a baseball. That career arc is pretty typical for an MVP and mentioned in further detail next paragraph. I feel the longevity of players is ruined and rarely do you have an all star over the age of 30 or an MVP above 27. The MVP and Rookie of the Year has been won by the same player in the same year a total of 12 times simming from 2012 to 2033. That is absurd. These 23 year olds will hit 50 home runs as a rookie then regress hitting 40 then 30 then 25 for a couple years before they are washed up by 32. A handful of times the MVP didn't even have 100 RBI... Hitting is dead, pitching is alive (rarely is there an all star selection with an ERA above 3 because there are so many dominant pitchers) and nobody has a career longevity to ever make it into the hall of fame. How can I fix this? Also, without going into commissioner mode, what tweaks can I make so that a 35 year old outfielder who is 2 homeruns away from 300 will sign a decent contract? What happens is you get these guys who signed HUGE deals in their prime and then spent the last 2 years of that contract either on the bench or in the minors because they were so awful so they haven't been regular players for 2 years or so and yet they still demand a multi million dollar deal as a half star player. What happens is they'll remain as a free agent for 2-3 years before they finally begin to even consider a reasonable deal and its usually goes down mid season after being free agents for 2-3 years and its a sudden drop from demanding 2 million a year to minor league deal. In my opinion, any player that close to a milestone who hasn't played regularly should not hold out as a free agent for 2 years before signing a deal. Is this a complete fluke? Did I somehow tweak some settings that resulted in a dead ball era? How can this be avoided? I like having recognizable names in the league and am tired that the CPU won't create any Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, Albert Pujols. Gary Sheffied type player who is productive after 30. Fact that nobody has made it into the HOF in 7 years is pretty telling that something is not right...

09-12-2012, 06:38 PM	#2
The Game Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Inside The Game Posts: 30,937	Personally I think that sounds way cool! I didn't know that OOTP would recreate a deadball era. To prevent this though it sounds like you have more/less offense, more/less pitching checked in your evolution options. uncheck them then you get 2012 forever beyond 2012.

09-28-2012, 12:43 AM	#3
Baseballw00t Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	I have checked the evolution and confirmed I've left that untouched, this is something that clearly happened on its own. I also forgot to mention early on around 2015 or so they made a rule change to lower the mound as well because the game felt pitching was too strong yet clearly that has done nothing and pitching has actually been more dominant since. My main beef isn't the deadball era, its that there are way too few players who are able to sustain abilities high enough to warrant playing after 30 so the average career of an allstar is only about 6-7 years and they thus don't have the longevity to get into the hall of fame. How can I fix that?

09-28-2012, 01:16 AM	#4
Izz Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 2,469	What are your settings under your League Setup -> Strategy page, and the Player portion of the Player & Picture Options page?

09-28-2012, 02:42 PM	#5
Isryion Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 337	One of the great things about OOTP is that these things can be adjusted and sometimes need to be if you are looking for a certain sort of experience. I'll try and address a them but it sounds like there are a couple of issues. 1) Player careers are too short 2) Hitting is below 2012 levels. 3) Park Factors 1) It's not uncommon to see threads about leagues like yours (especially those that have been in business for several years) where players over 30 just aren't effective. In fact there's a relatively lengthy discussion here: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...lb-league.html Which will lead you to look at aging and random talent modifiers. Adjust these to your liking. I've found in some cases this issue can be related to injury settings, and that injuries can be too debilitating and stack up quickly, shortening almost every player's career. Most people think Normal is a bit high, but it's worth looking at as this does have an effect on player longevity in your league. 2) You can adjust the statistical numbers to whatever you'd like if you feel they are low in the league setup options. Or, even if they are set to 2012 numbers, you could increase the numbers (maybe using the steroid era numbers for top end comparison) and see how that affects your league. 3) Park factors can be edited. One of my concerns with OOTP is they use recent park factor data, iirc, (which is typically a relatively small sample). Either way, you can bring park factors of parks closer to 1.0 by going in and editing them. A warning, though. Obviously if you start to adjust all of these factors in one direction for hitters, you might see far more gains than you'd expect. It might be worth recreating your league as a quickstart, making changes and simming several years to see how they are impacting your numbers. Then, return to your league after those trials and see what happens.

10-02-2012, 07:17 AM	#6
Baseballw00t Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	Double checked and everything is at the default 1 or 100 However interestingly the actual results from the last season are really telling. Hits, doubles and hit by pitches results were all around where they should be at but home runs and triples where in the 700s, BBs in the 900s and Ks 1200s Thanks for the links, will start a new league with the new adjustments and switch injuries from normal so they happen less frequently. Makes sense given that each season about a dozen news stories are about people calling their careers over due to injuries. Thanks a lot, really appreciate the help guys.

10-31-2012, 12:20 AM	#7
Baseballw00t Bat Boy Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 4	thanks guys, i put in the aging modifiers and started over and it worked like a charm, MVPs at 26 are still relevant at 32 and its become a challenge to put together a staff where nobody has an era over 4. i still have issues when (for example) a pablo sandoval at 39 that can no longer play defense or hit for power but could be a decent pinch hitter (14 contact etc) insists on relinquishing as a free agent for two years because nobody will give him a multi year multi million dollar deal. I eventually signed him for the hell of it at 41 (still hit for average) at an inflated 2 million for one year and he just got angry because I wouldn't start him over my MVP 5 star 1B even though the man could no longer play defense, still gave me a great .315 avg in about 100 at bats but I really think they should work on making star players who are no longer stars just straight up retire more often and/or be willing to accept cheap one year deals and be content with being a role player like Rickey Henderson did in his final years other than that the changes are great, thanks a ton