Help get OOTP on Steam via Greenlight!

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Markus has said on more than one occasion that the game will never be Steam exclusive. I am not really sure how this myth keeps getting propagated when it has been refuted on multiple occasions.

Steam is simply a delivery method and another option to purchase the game. It does not change the actual game in any meaningful way.
The main advantage of Steam from a developers point of view is that it gets your product out to a much larger audience.

OOTP on Steam has the potential to attract in many new customers.
More customers means the potential of hiring on more developers and seeing the game take greater steps between yearly versions.

There is no nefarious plot afoot to make OOTP only avaliable on Steam.

I simply cannot fathom why you would not want to share OOTP with a larger audience and give it at least a fighting chance of becoming something more than a niche game with one full time developer.

If you care at all about things like graphics, sound, more features, greater realism, better historical play etc., then you should be all for getting OOTP onto the largest digital content delivery system avaliable.
Steam has the current market share right now in the digital sales world.

OOTPD and each of us really have nothing to lose by voting yes. If this entire experiment fails then Markus will still work on the game and it will go back to being avaliable exclusively through the current web store.

But if it succeeds and brings in an all new level of customers...just imagine the future development possibilities.

What Rudel wrote.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Orcin

Just to be sure, I think we should continue the strong negative response on the forum. You can't be too careful these days.

You guys, always with the negative responses to suggested improvements to the game.

[The Wolf]

Why does it seem like every time someone suggests a way to grow OOTP sales on this forum someone seems to feel the need to argue that it's fine the way it is?

Who would actually think that having many more customers would not be good for the game?

I just don't get it. If the developer says he can't do it or it's not worth the time that's one thing. But I don't get why anyone wouldn't want the game to have more customers.

It's an amazing game as is. But there's still many areas where it could get better. That's why we need to grow the customer base, so that the game will have the funding to keep getting better.

Sorry for the rant. It just irks me sometimes to see good ideas get shot down when they could lead to in-game improvements.

[PSUColonel]

voted

[PSUColonel]

Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co KG - Web Application Developer - Games-Career.com

[pizzaddict]

I'm surprised how much negativity there is about Steam and I'm also surprised how little people know about it. Why do people hate it so much? Do you hate getting games at a reasonable price? Does it suck to have all your games conveniently in one place? Does it suck that smaller developers are able to expose their games to larger audiences, therefore bringing in more revenue, therefore being able to put more money into developing their game? I've been using Steam for 2 years, have about 100 games on it, and have NEVER had an issue. I just don't get it.

Anyway, my vote is in.

Does anyone at OOTP know if those who have already purchased the game will be able to get Steam keys if it makes it onto Steam?

[21C]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Why does it seem like every time someone suggests a way to grow OOTP sales on this forum someone seems to feel the need to argue that it's fine the way it is?

Who would actually think that having many more customers would not be good for the game?

I just don't get it. If the developer says he can't do it or it's not worth the time that's one thing. But I don't get why anyone wouldn't want the game to have more customers.

It's an amazing game as is. But there's still many areas where it could get better. That's why we need to grow the customer base, so that the game will have the funding to keep getting better.

Sorry for the rant. It just irks me sometimes to see good ideas get shot down when they could lead to in-game improvements.

Irony?

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by 21C

Irony?

Total parody. I paraphrased a post by one of the kids there. Did they get it? Nope. Go read the Double Steal thread, better known as the "Wolf didn't do anything, but let's attack and insult him anyway" thread.

[daves]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co KG - Web Application Developer - Games-Career.com

If they hired me I would probably get let go for constantly playing with the product.

[Stinson]

Originally Posted by pizzaddict

Does anyone at OOTP know if those who have already purchased the game will be able to get Steam keys if it makes it onto Steam?

Same question here. It'd be nice if we could get a key to switch our copy over.

Originally Posted by pizzaddict

Why do people hate it so much?

One of the biggest reasons people hate Steam is simply ignorance. And that's not to say they're stupid, it's just based on the arguments I've seen. People just don't understand what Steam is, or how it works. Combine that with the existing negativity they see around the internet, and they assume Steam is out to get them.

Basically what it comes down to is that Steam would not be the huge success that it is if it really was as bad as the vocal minority makes it out to be... especially when you consider how fickle and temperamental the gaming community is. Steam is very popular, and for good reason.

[The Wolf]

Eireksten posted this on the Civ V forum a while back (yes, I play Civ). It's a good rundown/summary on Steam.

"Steam Pros, Cons and Myths

I've noticed a few people actually wanting to know how Steam works. As information is pretty hard to dig out in the Steam Discussion thread, I figured I'd compile a list of pros cons and myths. Feel free to make suggestions of additions to the below! I'll try updating this based on your input.

Pros

You can download the game an unlimited amount of times from Steam. Meaning you don't have to worry about backing up the game files whenever you get a new computer, are reinstalling your OS or simply for some reason want to delete the game for a while.

Steam is available for both Windows and Mac. If you buy a game, you get access to both versions (assuming they've both been released). You can freely download both (as many times as you like), and using Steam Cloud, you'll have access to your save games from both operating systems. If Steam is made available for more OS, it will apply to those as well.

Steam works as a DRM, effectively removing the need to add other DRM to the game.

Steam handles updating and patching of your game.

Bug Reporting. Bugs and crashes can quickly be reported to the developers. This allows them to get more information about the problems with the game, and hopefully also release patches/updates faster to fix it.

Steam is under constant development. Bugs and other issues with Steam can be reported to Valve and hopefully fixed. We might also see general improvement in the general online framework Steam provides.

Everyone will in theory be connected to the same online community through the game. This will hopefully make it easier to distribute mods and to find games online.

Steamworks provides a framework for a lot online functionality for the game.

Access to the Steam Community, for achievements, leaderboards, profiles, avatars, friends lists, text chat, voice chat and forums.

Framework for Downloadable Content (DLC), both free and (lacking a better word) non-free.

Multiplayer matchmaking. Play with other players around your level.

Cheat Detection. Cheaters are banned from dedicated servers (that are connected to the anti-cheating.

Access from any computer. As long as you've got your account information, you can play the game from any computer (not at the same time, of course). You can also save your games in the Steam cloud, thus having access to your save from any computer as well.

Cons

You need a Steam account to play your game, and therefore also need to accept Steams Subscriber Agreement (EULA).*

You need to download the Steam client (1.5MB) and update it (a little more) to be able to play your game. I guess the client might be distributed with retail versions of the game, but it still needs to be updated during installation.

The Steam Client needs to be running whenever you play a Steam game. It could be in offline mode, of course, but will still require about 10MB memory resources.

In order to activate or update the game, you need to go online.

[You are] forced into somewhat supporting a third party company (Valve) in order to play the game.

You can only be online with your account with one computer at a time. This means that if several in your family/household wants to play a Steam game at different computers at the same time, you need more accounts (and thus more licenses if you want to play the same game). The exception is if everyone (or all but one) are offline.

Steam provides DRM. Unless you already realized it, the above works as DRM. Yes, 2K are not distributing Civ5 DRM-free, if you were hoping for that.

I think I've read about some issues where Steam wouldn't allow offline play until the client was properly updated. That is, the last time it was online it found an update, but didn't get to download it (because you closed the app first). Haven't experienced this myself, though. If this is a problem, I'm sure Valve are getting loads of complaints about it and are working on a fix.

If Valve goes bankrupt or otherwise decides so, they will no longer support the game through the application. They have said that they'll unlock all games that will no longer be supported. As long as they don't break their word on this, we will be safe.

Unless you are an authorized reseller for Valve, reselling Steam games is not possible. Also, transferring/selling your whole account is not allowed. While this could potentially change in the future, there have been no indication of this at the present time.

Myths

You need to be online in order to play the game.

Wrong. You only need to be online during installation, activation and when updating. Unless the game itself requires a network connection, you can play perfectly fine while offline.

You need to be online in order to start Steam.

Wrong. If you're not online, Steam asks whether you want to go offline or try again. Unless of course Steam was already set to offline mode the last time you used it.

Losing connection throws you out of the game.

Wrong. I've tested, and nothing really happens.

You'll be stuck with lots of Steam ads.

Wrong. You can disable the ads, and won't even need to open the Steam client UI in order to play. Anyhow, you can also easily set your homepage to the games library (as opposed to the store).

Steam and Steamworks is extremely buggy and have loads of problems.

At least partially wrong. While you'll find lots of threads about problems with Steam around the web, most of these have already been fixed. Steam has improved a whole lot lately, and is continuing to improve. As any other program you can probably find something that isn't perfect, but all in all Steam is pretty reliable.

Steam games are less moddable than other games.

Wrong. Steam games are just as moddable as other games. I know this from experience, as I've got a Steam version of Civ 4. If a game is less moddable, that is entirely the developers choice of implementation.

Steam will try to connect to the Steam Network from time to time, even when offline.

Wrong. You can stay offline for as long as you like without Steam connecting to any network service. As long as you don't delete the client, format your computer or anything similar leading to Steam losing data."

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Stinson

Basically what it comes down to is that Steam would not be the huge success that it is if it really was as bad as the vocal minority makes it out to be... especially when you consider how fickle and temperamental the gaming community is. Steam is very popular, and for good reason.

Amen. I have some Steam Games. I have some Stardock games. I have some eLicense games. I have some CD/DVD games. It's all good, and Steam isn't any more of a problem than any other form of DRM, which is what is really is.

Most of the Steam games I have I bought on Amazon, and not from Steam.

[ihatenames]

Voted. I for one, welcome our new insect overlords.

[Cod]

I voted. I love Steam as its the best DRM (if you can call it that). Games are always available on a cloud server for download and only have to be online the first time you play a game. Then you can play the game offline all you want.

Also, courts ruled that digital games are property of an owner. Thus, even if Steam goes away, you will own all the games you've purchased.

[TGH-Adfabre]

Voted yes and commented. Hopefully putting the game in front of a larger audience will drive more sales and produce a better product.

[gamefan1978]

Voted for i hope more people get to check out OOTP.

[Cork55]

OOTP on Steam would be the best thing to ever happen to the game. Having that large of a game playing audience as potential customers is huge.

[Pdubya64]

I was initially pretty skeptical with regards to Steam. I mean, some Seattle-based s/w firm wants to take my money for a digital version of a game after agreeing to their contract? Hmmm, no thanks. But, I slowly changed my mind a couple years ago, mostly through talking with friends who found it a fair tradeoff for what you get by joining the Steam "team". I feel this is a big, BIG opportunity for Markus and OOTP guys. I don't know if we can understate it to be perfectly honest. I would compare it to putting a item you want to sell in the local newspaper ads vs. posting it on eBay. There is no comparison in the size of the audience that you get. None. The same can be said of Steam. For Markus, there really isn't any other mainstream medium of advertising/exposure out there that brings the same return.

It isn't for everyone. Battlefront has resisted due to the amount of control, % cut of profits demanded by Valve; but it makes sense- they have a very niche product line (wargames) that they can serve and maintain better themselves, not to mention they get 100% of the profits. This may change in the future, but not for now. I think that OOTP is different in that Baseball is a pretty popular game around the world and Markus has seemingly taken it as far as he can on the "small budget, small independent team/company" principle.

Of course, Steam is imperfect. I don't really care for certain titles where you need to own the Steam version of the main game in order to make use of the (sometimes exclusive) DLC (downloadable content) for said game. Which really stinks when you already purchased the game in question from a local store.

So, like life, it's far from perfect- however, I can't think of a better way at this point in OOTP's lifecycle to expand the user-base and allow Markus the latitude to do certain things with his company and OOTP that are currently impossible.

All those wishlist items we have? What if this new income allows the hiring of one or a couple new programmers and maybe another graphics/design employee? If you stop for a minute and keep an open mind about what this might mean for all involved guys, it is pretty exciting.

Of course, Steam offers some obvious advantages to the players- just last night I got METRO 2033 for $4.99. Yes, that's no typo. Granted, for people without decent bandwidth, the whole concept falls flat on its face. Thankfully, they are still supporting the existing community as they always have and don't intend on changing that policy.

I guess to wrap up, I would point out that regardless of whether you like or hate Steam, or really don't care; there is a window of opportunity here right now to help Markus grow his company and OOTP. That means good things for all of us in the long term.

Think it over. Now excuse me while I go vote for Greenlighting OOTP!
pw

[yougo1000]

Voted

[reddawg]

Gladly voted it up and added a positive comment !!

Some amazingly selfish comments in this thread on reasons to limit this great sim !!!