It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP done this yet?

Mr. Baseball · 08-22-2012, 03:32 PM

For years now (ever since gmo left OOTP), fictional league commissioners have had to settle for schedules that don't fit their desires because we have nobody left that is able to create customized schedules on their own. I'm sick of having to tweak my league structure to fit a schedule that I don't even like.

It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP designed a way to make 100% customizable schedules quick and easy? If you ask me, this is the biggest problem with Out of the Park Baseball. OOTP can only generate 'balanced' schedules, which basically means you play teams in the same order over and over. Borrringggg.

Here's what I want to see with OOTP 14...

Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO.

Thoughts?

SandMan · 08-22-2012, 03:43 PM

I don't have the files anymore but they were on PadresFan site so they may still be somewhere out there. I had converted over 300 schedules in the new format. Maybe they could be of use so if anyone has them if they could make the files available it would help. If the files were not perfect you can still edit them in NotePad and they could fit your needs.

If I am not mistaken there is a schedule generator for OOTP 6.5 called Stickware Schedule Generator and there is a utility out there that converts the schedule to be used in the current format, forgot the name but it should still be out there some where.

Bluenoser · 08-22-2012, 04:24 PM

All of GMO's schedules are still available in the Mods Forum. They are also very easy to edit.

Le Grande Orange · 08-22-2012, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO.

If only it were that easy. Even the computer program used by the firm which makes the MLB schedule still needs help from human input to clean it up. And even then mistakes sometimes slip through. (The Diamondbacks had to create a day-night doubleheader for today due to the fact the originally published schedule had Arizona playing for 23 consecutive days without a day off, a breach of the CBA rules on scheduling which mandate a 20-day maximum. Somehow that mistake got through without anyone noticing.)

david limbaugh · 08-22-2012, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

For years now (ever since gmo left OOTP), fictional league commissioners have had to settle for schedules that don't fit their desires because we have nobody left that is able to create customized schedules on their own. I'm sick of having to tweak my league structure to fit a schedule that I don't even like.

It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP designed a way to make 100% customizable schedules quick and easy? If you ask me, this is the biggest problem with Out of the Park Baseball. OOTP can only generate 'balanced' schedules, which basically means you play teams in the same order over and over. Borrringggg.

Here's what I want to see with OOTP 14...

Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO.

Thoughts?

Since OOTP 4(?) I have created my schedules via QuickBasic programs.

I create a '.dat' file of the schedule and then read that with a quick basic program to create the guts for the .lsdl file

I create a fictional schedule inside game of # games for each team and other rules, export that, then replace the <Game> tags with output from my quick basic routines. This gets me weekend series and weekday series. I even schedule rainouts and makeup dates at random :-) I then import that back in.

One of the bugs in OOTP13 now is that I have to re-import every year even though the setup says load from my custom LSDL file. I created an even and odd year LSDL file since I have to import each year now.

RchW · 08-22-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

For years now (ever since gmo left OOTP), fictional league commissioners have had to settle for schedules that don't fit their desires because we have nobody left that is able to create customized schedules on their own. I'm sick of having to tweak my league structure to fit a schedule that I don't even like.

It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP designed a way to make 100% customizable schedules quick and easy? If you ask me, this is the biggest problem with Out of the Park Baseball. OOTP can only generate 'balanced' schedules, which basically means you play teams in the same order over and over. Borrringggg.

Here's what I want to see with OOTP 14...

Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO.

Thoughts?

The position is open. Are you volunteering?

The Wolf · 08-22-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

For years now (ever since gmo left OOTP), fictional league commissioners have had to settle for schedules that don't fit their desires because we have nobody left that is able to create customized schedules on their own. I'm sick of having to tweak my league structure to fit a schedule that I don't even like.

It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP designed a way to make 100% customizable schedules quick and easy? If you ask me, this is the biggest problem with Out of the Park Baseball. OOTP can only generate 'balanced' schedules, which basically means you play teams in the same order over and over. Borrringggg.

Here's what I want to see with OOTP 14...

Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO.

Thoughts?

I think you should take over from GMO. Oh, you wanted someone else to do all the work? Sorry.

reddawg · 08-22-2012, 11:12 PM

there ya go Mr.Baseball after reading the last two posts.. now you know why its still not in the game.

The Wolf · 08-23-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reddawg

there ya go Mr.Baseball after reading the last two posts.. now you know why its still not in the game.

Yes. And what are you going to do about it?

Mr. Baseball · 08-23-2012, 01:27 AM

Look, if the designers of OOTP have the technical skills to make a game this complex, I find it hard to believe they can't make a schedule generator.

Trust me, If I had any computer skills whatsoever, I'd be all over this.

Le Grande Orange · 08-23-2012, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

Look, if the designers of OOTP have the technical skills to make a game this complex, I find it hard to believe they can't make a schedule generator.

There's a world of difference between a schedule generator and a robust, customizable schedule generator. An MLB schedule is a jigsaw puzzle containing 2,430 pieces—only it's a jigsaw puzzle with more than one right answer. I'll let the mathematicians/statisticians calculate just how many permutations are possible from 2,430 pieces. (I'm pretty sure the number will be big. Really big.)

Sit down and try to create by hand a 154-game schedule for an 8-team league—especially when trying to have that schedule have certain features (e.g. home stands or road trips not over a certain length, not playing the same opponent back-to-back, etc.). That should quickly give you a feel for the mathematical complexity involved. (You can also Google the subject. I'm sure you'll find some papers from computer scientists who have explored various mathematical means to try and solve the problems schedule creation poses.)

The Wolf · 08-23-2012, 10:50 AM

LGO is the godfather of schedules. Listen to what he's telling you.

Threnodas · 08-23-2012, 12:48 PM

Having written programs to make baseball schedules, I want to add a crucial step to what LGO said:

Try making a 154-game schedule for 8 teams, adhering to your choice of constraints, but don't do it free-hand. Instead, rigidly follow a list of steps that specify how you will create this schedule. If you can write down every step you use to create the schedule, congratulations, you have a scheduling program. And you're not allowed to write out every possible schedule and decide which one you like best. We won't be dead before it finishes; we'll be extinct.

Now, a robust, customizable schedule maker could do that for any number of teams, games, and division setups. Until we have that, thanks to Johann Berger, we have a simple algorithm that makes a balanced schedule in no time. I would suggest a simple tweak that would make the default home/road stand 2 series rather than 1. But once the schedule gets more complicated, making a decent schedule in a short time becomes incomprehensibly complex in a real hurry.

Mr. Baseball · 08-23-2012, 01:08 PM

It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule.

I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade.

Walsh06 · 08-23-2012, 01:14 PM

Well you could do it and find how complex or not it is.

SandMan · 08-23-2012, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule.

I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade.

I used to create schedules in the days of OOTP 6.5 and it took me hours to create a decent schedule. Try it sometime and you will see that it is difficult to get a schedule right within the rules of baseball.

The Game · 08-23-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule.

I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade.

He did you just gotta look around. I have used this, but last time I made a schedule it took me 3 hours.
Making Baseball Schedules

Threnodas · 08-23-2012, 01:45 PM

GMO did leave something behind, but sadly not enough. The blog that he linked to in his signature describes his schedule-making process here. As you can see, he stopped after just a couple posts, and he described the overall process but did not fill in how he specifically did it.

Nevertheless, Layton Is My Homeboy started a thread about writing a schedule generator following GMO's method here. I'm not familiar with the language(s) he settled on, but if you are so inclined, send him a message and see if the project is still ongoing.

It may have taken GMO most of a day or more to make a schedule. And he was very selective in how he set up his parameters. He looked ahead and decided whether he could fulfill the request and how. If you told the computer to design the schedule just the way you wanted it and it said "No, but how about this?" like GMO often had to do, you would probably not be satisfied.

Edit: Beaten to the punch on GMO's blog.

RchW · 08-23-2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule.

I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade.

Tell me you don't work on building design/construction or air traffic control.

DCG12 · 08-23-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Baseball

It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule.

I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade.

As someone who has been here since OOTP 4 and was here during GMO's heyday I can tell you that even he had schedules he just couldn't or wouldn't do.

A more difficult problem is when parameters are such that I do not see the schedule as being feasible to produce. A complicated league structure with a very specific breakdown of games per opponent simply may not be possible to make, or at least in any reasonable amount of time.

That is a quote from a blog he started but never finished and as you can see he admits that not every schedule was possible. Now imagine the level of stress the multitude of users here would put on a computer program with their crazy parameters.

GMO had a spreadsheet that he used to create schedules and reading his blog I think hours might have been a reasonable time frame to create a schedule from scratch.

If you are interested in what little GMO shared in his blog before he left it is here:
Making Baseball Schedules

On a side note I think the reason he left was that he got burned out on schedule requests and didn't know how to kill the monster he created. He might well be here under another alias.

08-22-2012, 03:32 PM	#1
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP done this yet? For years now (ever since gmo left OOTP), fictional league commissioners have had to settle for schedules that don't fit their desires because we have nobody left that is able to create customized schedules on their own. I'm sick of having to tweak my league structure to fit a schedule that I don't even like. It's 2012, why hasn't OOTP designed a way to make 100% customizable schedules quick and easy? If you ask me, this is the biggest problem with Out of the Park Baseball. OOTP can only generate 'balanced' schedules, which basically means you play teams in the same order over and over. Borrringggg. Here's what I want to see with OOTP 14... Have the game generate unbalanced schedules, and allow us to input how many games we want against division foes, league foes, and interleague foes. Essentially grant us a schedule generator that was as efficient as GMO. Thoughts? __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-22-2012, 03:43 PM	#2
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	I don't have the files anymore but they were on PadresFan site so they may still be somewhere out there. I had converted over 300 schedules in the new format. Maybe they could be of use so if anyone has them if they could make the files available it would help. If the files were not perfect you can still edit them in NotePad and they could fit your needs. If I am not mistaken there is a schedule generator for OOTP 6.5 called Stickware Schedule Generator and there is a utility out there that converts the schedule to be used in the current format, forgot the name but it should still be out there some where. Last edited by SandMan; 08-22-2012 at 04:12 PM.

08-22-2012, 11:12 PM	#8
reddawg Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 78	there ya go Mr.Baseball after reading the last two posts.. now you know why its still not in the game. __________________ "Silence in the face of evil is itself evil, God will not hold us guiltless" Dietrich Bonhoeffer

08-23-2012, 01:27 AM	#10
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	Look, if the designers of OOTP have the technical skills to make a game this complex, I find it hard to believe they can't make a schedule generator. Trust me, If I had any computer skills whatsoever, I'd be all over this. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-23-2012, 01:08 PM	#14
Mr. Baseball All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Mequon, Wisconsin Posts: 1,020	It can't be as complex as some of you are implying. GMO managed to figure it out, and I doubt it took him hours just to complete one schedule. I just wish he left something behind for the rest of us to learn his trade. __________________ Duluth Danger (HBL) Dynasty Report -- Online League Franchise Duluth - 1985/1989 North League Champions!

08-22-2012, 04:24 PM	#3
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,544	All of GMO's schedules are still available in the Mods Forum. They are also very easy to edit.

08-23-2012, 12:48 PM	#13
Threnodas Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 256	Having written programs to make baseball schedules, I want to add a crucial step to what LGO said: Try making a 154-game schedule for 8 teams, adhering to your choice of constraints, but don't do it free-hand. Instead, rigidly follow a list of steps that specify how you will create this schedule. If you can write down every step you use to create the schedule, congratulations, you have a scheduling program. And you're not allowed to write out every possible schedule and decide which one you like best. We won't be dead before it finishes; we'll be extinct. Now, a robust, customizable schedule maker could do that for any number of teams, games, and division setups. Until we have that, thanks to Johann Berger, we have a simple algorithm that makes a balanced schedule in no time. I would suggest a simple tweak that would make the default home/road stand 2 series rather than 1. But once the schedule gets more complicated, making a decent schedule in a short time becomes incomprehensibly complex in a real hurry.

08-23-2012, 01:14 PM	#15
Walsh06 All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 545	Well you could do it and find how complex or not it is. __________________ The Numbers Game, Sports Blog

08-23-2012, 01:45 PM	#18
Threnodas Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 256	GMO did leave something behind, but sadly not enough. The blog that he linked to in his signature describes his schedule-making process here. As you can see, he stopped after just a couple posts, and he described the overall process but did not fill in how he specifically did it. Nevertheless, Layton Is My Homeboy started a thread about writing a schedule generator following GMO's method here. I'm not familiar with the language(s) he settled on, but if you are so inclined, send him a message and see if the project is still ongoing. It may have taken GMO most of a day or more to make a schedule. And he was very selective in how he set up his parameters. He looked ahead and decided whether he could fulfill the request and how. If you told the computer to design the schedule just the way you wanted it and it said "No, but how about this?" like GMO often had to do, you would probably not be satisfied. Edit: Beaten to the punch on GMO's blog.