Sabremetrics, Moneyball... OOTP13?

dumbrabbit · 08-03-2012, 07:55 PM

Curious to know, is anyone like Billy Beane? Does anyone use more stats than just BA, ERA, etc to figure out how good a player is?

I am currently trying it out with the Mariners for our 2013 season. Currently we have $28,000,000 in free payroll space available and currently our record though one and a half months is 22-17. Not bad for a $60,000,000 payroll team. I'll update the thread as our season progresses.

Does anyone else use this theory or just stick to the traditional BA and ERA to determine who's a good player?

ELDoro · 08-03-2012, 08:14 PM

I pretty much only look at OBP, SLG%, and OPS on the offensive side. I would have to say my evaluation of pitchers is still closer to traditional but I have been slowly adapting as of late.

eternal · 08-03-2012, 08:17 PM

Sure. OOTP13 provides a lot of nice and more advanced stats. For batters I'll look at slash lines and wOBA. For pitchers I look at K rates, K/BB, GB/FB rate, and FIP. I tend not to look at the fielding stats too much and just judge a player's fielding ability from the ratings.

Also like to look at my guys' career WAR as I get deeper into a dynasty. I want to get some Hall of Famers!

Wish the game had PitchF/X type stuff...

Erik · 08-03-2012, 10:25 PM

I've started to look more closely at pitchers K/9 and BB/9 stats, especially for bullpeners. My past two offseasons I picked up relievers with the best K/9 ratio and I feel they've really solidified my pen.

Pacoheadley · 08-03-2012, 11:54 PM

For batters I look at OBP, OPS+, wOBA, WAR, and I am a big platooner for lefties and righties. AND DEFENSE. For pitchers I mostly ignore their ERA, I use mostly FIP, although I mentally adjust their FIP in extreme BABIP cases (for their K% and BB%). I pay less attention to a short sample of home runs, as those can be fluky. I don't actually pay too much attention to GB/FB rate, as this game's movement rating mostly decides home runs, the GB/FB rate has little to do with it.

PSUColonel · 08-04-2012, 12:43 AM

I look at scouting as a guideline, but OPS and VoRP as a real way of evaluating offensive talent..one thing I do however, is really pay attention to defensive stats, not all players highly ranked in defensive categories are always all that.

damientheomen3 · 08-04-2012, 03:14 AM

I don't use sabermetrics for batting (unless OPS+ counts). FIP and WHIP for pitchers. ZR and EFF for defense.

The Game · 08-04-2012, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dumbrabbit

Curious to know, is anyone like Billy Beane? Does anyone use more stats than just BA, ERA, etc to figure out how good a player is?

Yes I tell my players to go hang out at Balco and I draft really great young pitchers. Now I will give Beane credit for this season but not for any years that concern his rise to fame. 3 accused/known steroid users and he trades a great young 1B just so a backup C with no arm can play 1B. Why did Moneyball ( The movie) fail to mention 3 outstanding young arms and several players accused of juicing. 2 which were busted for it.

jbergey22 · 08-04-2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Game

Yes I tell my players to go hang out at Balco and I draft really great young pitchers. Now I will give Beane credit for this season but not for any years that concern his rise to fame. 3 accused/known steroid users and he trades a great young 1B just so a backup C with no arm can play 1B. Why did Moneyball ( The movie) fail to mention 3 outstanding young arms and several players accused of juicing. 2 which were busted for it.

Great young 1st baseman? If time has told us anything it is that Carlos Pena is not great.

Hatteberg was a 3.1 WAR player the year you talk about. Pena was 0.5 a quarter ways through the season when he was traded. Pena has topped 3.1 WAR twice in his entire career. Not as dumb of a move as you may have thought which is the point the movie was trying to make.

JWay · 08-04-2012, 11:26 AM

I only use advanced metrics. Baseball cards stats are fun to use in writing stories, but when playing and evaulating it's all about advanced stats.

JDevil · 08-04-2012, 12:36 PM

I look at advanced stats and evaluate as much as possible. I finished the inaugural season 85-35, and actually lost to my brother in the playoffs. I guess I gave him too much advice when drafting his team too!

tds787 · 08-06-2012, 04:05 PM

I have different tiers of stats usage. AVG, HR, RBI are the first tier. OBP, SLG, wOBA is tier two.

Depending on the league, the team, the financial situation, Tier one players bring in big money, tier two players are the important "glue" players, and so on.

I can confidently say I've made full use of all stats the game has provided.

Except WAR. I'm still not completely sold on the concept. But certainly glad it's included.

Pacoheadley · 08-06-2012, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tds787

I have different tiers of stats usage. AVG, HR, RBI are the first tier. OBP, SLG, wOBA is tier two.

Depending on the league, the team, the financial situation, Tier one players bring in big money, tier two players are the important "glue" players, and so on.

I can confidently say I've made full use of all stats the game has provided.

Except WAR. I'm still not completely sold on the concept. But certainly glad it's included.

You know WAR is just wOBA, plus defense, plus an adjustment for what position they play.

legofarley · 08-07-2012, 01:08 PM

I also use a variety of stats at the ML level to evaluate players. But I feel that at the minor league level BA/OBP/RBI for batters and ERA/GF%/IP/OBA for pitchers tells enough of the story. If those numbers aren't up to snuff in the minors how could they make it in the bigs?

Cork55 · 08-07-2012, 02:23 PM

I never use the advanced stats. I wish I could turn them off.

-Cork55

RchW · 08-07-2012, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

I look at scouting as a guideline, but OPS and VoRP as a real way of evaluating offensive talent..one thing I do however, is really pay attention to defensive stats, not all players highly ranked in defensive categories are always all that.

I notice that too. Are you concerned that player defensive stats may not truly reflect in-game results. I am.

I've followed several players after trading them away and found that almost all improved significantly. Incoming players have done both.

RchW · 08-07-2012, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cork55

I never use the advanced stats. I wish I could turn them off.

-Cork55

You have an off switch.

You can choose what stats the game reports and you can control the display of whatever stats you chose earlier.

Cork55 · 08-07-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RchW

You have an off switch.

You can choose what stats the game reports and you can control the display of whatever stats you chose earlier.

For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to do this? Can you shed some light on this?

Thanks.

-Cork55

RchW · 08-07-2012, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cork55

For the life of me I can't seem to figure out how to do this? Can you shed some light on this?

Thanks.

-Cork55

ok

hfield007 · 08-07-2012, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tds787

AVG, HR, RBI are the first tier.

...you realize RBI is a useless stat?

08-03-2012, 07:55 PM	#1
dumbrabbit All Star Reserve Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 827	Sabremetrics, Moneyball... OOTP13? Curious to know, is anyone like Billy Beane? Does anyone use more stats than just BA, ERA, etc to figure out how good a player is? I am currently trying it out with the Mariners for our 2013 season. Currently we have $28,000,000 in free payroll space available and currently our record though one and a half months is 22-17. Not bad for a $60,000,000 payroll team. I'll update the thread as our season progresses. Does anyone else use this theory or just stick to the traditional BA and ERA to determine who's a good player?

08-03-2012, 08:14 PM	#2
ELDoro All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 535	I pretty much only look at OBP, SLG%, and OPS on the offensive side. I would have to say my evaluation of pitchers is still closer to traditional but I have been slowly adapting as of late. __________________ MLNB Commish: https://statsplus.net/mlnb/

08-03-2012, 08:17 PM	#3
eternal Minors (Single A) Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 57	Sure. OOTP13 provides a lot of nice and more advanced stats. For batters I'll look at slash lines and wOBA. For pitchers I look at K rates, K/BB, GB/FB rate, and FIP. I tend not to look at the fielding stats too much and just judge a player's fielding ability from the ratings. Also like to look at my guys' career WAR as I get deeper into a dynasty. I want to get some Hall of Famers! Wish the game had PitchF/X type stuff... Last edited by eternal; 08-03-2012 at 08:19 PM.

08-04-2012, 12:36 PM	#11
JDevil All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 594	I look at advanced stats and evaluate as much as possible. I finished the inaugural season 85-35, and actually lost to my brother in the playoffs. I guess I gave him too much advice when drafting his team too! __________________ BLHL Commissioner - GM - Atlanta Firerbirds

08-07-2012, 01:08 PM	#14
legofarley Major Leagues Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 460	I also use a variety of stats at the ML level to evaluate players. But I feel that at the minor league level BA/OBP/RBI for batters and ERA/GF%/IP/OBA for pitchers tells enough of the story. If those numbers aren't up to snuff in the minors how could they make it in the bigs? __________________ El Jimbo - OOTP fanatic since V. X & Official Fan of Justafan

08-03-2012, 10:25 PM	#4
Erik All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 505	I've started to look more closely at pitchers K/9 and BB/9 stats, especially for bullpeners. My past two offseasons I picked up relievers with the best K/9 ratio and I feel they've really solidified my pen.

08-03-2012, 11:54 PM	#5
Pacoheadley All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Kincheloe, MI Posts: 521	For batters I look at OBP, OPS+, wOBA, WAR, and I am a big platooner for lefties and righties. AND DEFENSE. For pitchers I mostly ignore their ERA, I use mostly FIP, although I mentally adjust their FIP in extreme BABIP cases (for their K% and BB%). I pay less attention to a short sample of home runs, as those can be fluky. I don't actually pay too much attention to GB/FB rate, as this game's movement rating mostly decides home runs, the GB/FB rate has little to do with it.

08-04-2012, 12:43 AM	#6
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,107	I look at scouting as a guideline, but OPS and VoRP as a real way of evaluating offensive talent..one thing I do however, is really pay attention to defensive stats, not all players highly ranked in defensive categories are always all that.

08-04-2012, 11:26 AM	#10
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Posts: 5,021	I only use advanced metrics. Baseball cards stats are fun to use in writing stories, but when playing and evaulating it's all about advanced stats.

08-06-2012, 04:05 PM	#12
tds787 Minors (Double A) Join Date: May 2012 Location: East Valley, Arizona Posts: 173	I have different tiers of stats usage. AVG, HR, RBI are the first tier. OBP, SLG, wOBA is tier two. Depending on the league, the team, the financial situation, Tier one players bring in big money, tier two players are the important "glue" players, and so on. I can confidently say I've made full use of all stats the game has provided. Except WAR. I'm still not completely sold on the concept. But certainly glad it's included.

08-07-2012, 02:23 PM	#15
Cork55 All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oregon, WI Posts: 1,567	I never use the advanced stats. I wish I could turn them off. -Cork55