OOTP 13 Update, NEW Version 13.5.22 released! (July 31st)

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

If some of you want this as badly as it seems - and I sure don't see why - then go get the data.

We want it because it happens in real life.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Sorry guys... can I just get clarification on whether this update will apply to EXISTING save games when installed, or will I need to start a new one?

all patches are save game compatable so no need to start a new game

[SteveSommer]

I'm sure that the event in question is somehow logged in the Retrosheet event files. Someone with some database chops could probably compile said data FWIW.

[OBSL Commish]

Thanks, OOTP Developments! You guys are the gold standard for sim baseball games and customer service!

[SkeptiSys]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Look, if we don't know how often an event occurs in baseball it has zero business being in a baseball simulation. If it gets put in without any data just to satisfy some whining, expect a revolt among those who are serious about baseball and accuracy.

If some of you want this as badly as it seems - and I sure don't see why - then go get the data.

Nobody will object to the simulation being made more accurate.

An approximation of an event frequency is usually more accurate than ignoring it completely. If this event was added to occur once every 3 years, it would be more accurate than leaving it out. But we do have better approximations, without spending money to buy professional databases, which I assume OOTP does purchase on an ongoing basis.

Baseball Prospectus collects what they call "other advancement opportunities: number of opportunities to advance on wild pitches, passed balls, and balks." The totals for this season range from about 0 to 8 by player. This could be used to get closer to the actual data.
Baseball Prospectus | Statistics | Custom Statistics Reports: Runner Team Year

More importantly, as great a simulation as OOTP13 is, it is far from perfect. If the community discourages people from making suggestions to improve the game, it will stunt the game's growth in accuracy, enjoyment, and sales.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

We want it because it happens in real life.

Then get the data, and get Markus to put it in the game based on how often it actually happens. No one will have an issue with that. But guessing simply won't do.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by SkeptiSys

More importantly, as great a simulation as OOTP13 is, it is far from perfect. If the community discourages people from making suggestions to improve the game, it will stunt the game's growth in accuracy, enjoyment, and sales.

Don't even try to play that card. I make suggestions to improve the game all the time and I back the valid suggestions of other people. But without hard data this idea is not an improvement but a step backwards in simulation accuracy and it therefore would make the game worse, not better, and that is what would stunt enjoyment and sales.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by SkeptiSys

If the community discourages people from making suggestions to improve the game, it will stunt the game's growth in accuracy, enjoyment, and sales.

Hear, hear.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Don't even try to play that card. I make suggestions to improve the game all the time and I back the valid suggestions of other people. But without hard data this idea is not an improvement but a step backwards in simulation accuracy and it therefore would make the game worse, not better, and that is what would stunt enjoyment and sales.

I think something happening the wrong amount of times is better than it never happening.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think something happening the wrong amount of times is better than it never happening.

No way is that even close to being accurate. People would scream if this event was put in the game and it happened too much. People already complain about late inning walks, balks and HBP. What do you think would happen if every 5th game this event were to happen? I think this needs to be out of the game unless there is enough statistical evidence to support the frequency of this event happening.

It is really quite simple. Show the data and present it to Markus and perhaps he could put it in the game. I will bet that this statistic for this event does not exist. Without data, there is no proof of frequency.

[Cryomaniac]

Originally Posted by SandMan

No way is that even close to being accurate. People would scream if this event was put in the game and it happened too much.

Then err on the side of caution and make it VERY rare until there's any data.

[BIG17EASY]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Then err on the side of caution and make it VERY rare until there's any data.

Define "VERY rare." Once every 100 games? Once every 500 games? Unless it's statistically accurate, no matter how often it happens, people will have a leg to stand on when they complain about it.

[damientheomen3]

And the problem with making it very rare (as I figure, one game out of the entire season would be a frequency quantified as very rare) would probably lead to those people questioning if it's really there. To make it happen often enough to satisfy most who want it, Markus would have to make it happen too often.

[rios97]

For those of us mainly play the game as a GM, we like to analyze and keep tabs on how we've done with draft picks and trades, at least I do. I was thinking that an option to automatically add drafted players to the shortlist would be great. They stand out when they are shortlisted, being that their name is spelled in all capitals. This is easier to keep tabs on them when you are looking at your whole organization. Also, a nice feature would be a trade history/analysis screen. This would allow us to look back and see how we did in those past trades. I'm thinking maybe, a screen that compares traded players stats and ratings.

Hope these two features are possible in future updates.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

I think something happening the wrong amount of times is better than it never happening.

And you're wrong.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Then err on the side of caution and make it VERY rare until there's any data.

Absolutely not. Keep it nonexistent until there is hard data.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And you're wrong.

An opinion can't be wrong. Come on now.

[hluraven]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Absolutely not. Keep it nonexistent until there is hard data.

We had best removing diving plays, balls caught in foul territory, everything that comes with storylines and thousands of other things in the game and PBP that stats aren't kept for then.

[RchW]

What is it called if a runner is thrown out at home, 3B, or 2B attempting to stretch a hit? Is that "runner out advancing"? If so then it is in the game.

What about 1st-3rd and 2nd-home? This is also in the game.

[Tom Barrister]

Active players die in real life, i.e. Clemente, Joss, Shocker, Lidle, etc. That should be programmed in. It may not happen often (about 70 times according to Wikipedia), but it would certainly be significant if the team's highest-paid superstar were killed in a plane crash.

Active players also have career-ending injuries. I'm still new to the game, so I don't know if it's programmed into the sim.

Many players have missed a game or two because they failed to get to the park on time or to a train/flight to go to the next city due to oversleeping, traffic, the Budweiser flu, etc. There have been cases of a player walking out on a team for days at a time. Some Jewish players (i.e. Greenburg, Koufax) have refused to play on Yom Kippur. Ken Griffey Jr. missed a game because the protective cup pinched a testicle. Roger Craig missed a game (as manager) because he cut his hand fooling with a bra strap (I'm not making these up). Brett Barberie missed a game because he got chili juice in his eyes. Maty Cordova missed a game because his face got sunburned in a tanning salon. Pascual Perez missed a game because he couldn't find the correct exit ramp. Lonny Frey missed the 1940 World Series because he dropped the iron lid of the water cooler on his foot.

And then there is pitcher Clarence Blethen, a 19-year minor-leaguer who played in 7 games in the majors. Mr. Blethen customarily took his false teeth out while he played and put them in his back pocket. He reached base once in 6 plate apperances. While sliding into second, his teeth connected with his posterior, causing bleeding and requiring the manager to take him out. Maybe a programming line can be added to the effect of:

injury:rand(1,40000000):text("self-inflicted butt bite").

If you want to be realistic, you can't have players from different eras compete against each other (using their in-prime stats) because they couldn't do that in real life. Nor can you have fictional players, because they didn't exist. In fact, if you want to be TOTALLY realistic, all historical players have to do the exact same thing that they did in real life on every pitch, at-bat, etc.

The point is, where do you draw the line?