No outs, man on third - Page 2

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tds787

Agreed but to be fair there are billions of variations of a billion possible plays to have to write and code in. Coding those freak plays are even more a pain; if they only happen once every 50 years you don't want it showing up every game but there will be a ton of those freak plays that a player will never see, ever.

Imagination is unfortunately required. Although we are all playing a text sim so imagination comes with the territory

The problem for me is, I play maybe 5 games out of a full season. I shouldn't see things like this. Two goofy plays in two games.

I'm seeing too many sacrifice bunts where they throw the runner out at 2nd base too.

Just seems a bit silly to me, but I understand these things can happen.

The Wolf · 07-17-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tds787

Agreed but to be fair there are billions of variations of a billion possible plays to have to write and code in. Coding those freak plays are even more a pain; if they only happen once every 50 years you don't want it showing up every game but there will be a ton of those freak plays that a player will never see, ever.

Imagination is unfortunately required. Although we are all playing a text sim so imagination comes with the territory

Well put.

termcl · 07-17-2012, 12:10 PM

What really kills me is man on third, less than two outs, and I don't even get the option to try and tag up on deep flyouts. Seen that happen a bunch of times, doesn't matter if it's Rickey Henderson or Paul Konerko on third, you can't even TRY to score. A manager should always have the option to risk having the runner thrown out at the plate.

BIG17EASY · 07-17-2012, 12:22 PM

I've seen the double play/runner stays at third a little bit more than I'd like, maybe a half dozen times per season. It's maddening when it happens, but I usually just let my imagination explain it somehow.

As for the runner staying at third on a ground ball with one out, it's standard strategy for runners on third base to go on contact with one out, especially good base runners. I'm not saying they should go 100 percent of the time, but probably more than 95 percent of the time.

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by big17easy

i've seen the double play/runner stays at third a little bit more than i'd like, maybe a half dozen times per season. It's maddening when it happens, but i usually just let my imagination explain it somehow.

as for the runner staying at third on a ground ball with one out, it's standard strategy for runners on third base to go on contact with one out, especially good base runners. I'm not saying they should go 100 percent of the time, but probably more than 95 percent of the time.

this

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 12:34 PM

Also, when I give the steal sign, steal the freaking base! Don't keep saying, "he starts to go and then goes back". The CPU AI goes when it wants to, why do my players at times ignore my commands!

BusterKing · 07-17-2012, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It went to the SS.

I don't play many games out, but I'm seeing some really goofy base running and it's starting to piss me off.

I have a man on third base, speed 6/10, base running 10/10, only 1 out.. ball hit back through the box, SS scoops it up and throws the runner out at first base. WHY IN THE F DID THE RUNNER JUST STAND THERE ON 3B???

I'm down 1-0 in the 8th and that just might cost me this playoff game.

You should watch the real Blue Jays play. I swear most of their players are brain dead. They make blunders like they are in t-ball.

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BusterKing

You should watch the real Blue Jays play. I swear most of their players are brain dead. They make blunders like they are in t-ball.

David Watts · 07-17-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Also, when I give the steal sign, steal the freaking base! Don't keep saying, "he starts to go and then goes back". The CPU AI goes when it wants to, why do my players at times ignore my commands!

I understand what you're saying about the steal sign and the runner starting and going back, but I think that is put into the game in an attempt to curb human run teams from having guys steal way too many bases.

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Also, when I give the steal sign, steal the freaking base! Don't keep saying, "he starts to go and then goes back". The CPU AI goes when it wants to, why do my players at times ignore my commands!

I think David has it right. Also, you can Force a steal. But I'm guessing your success rate will be lowered.

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

I think David has it right. Also, you can Force a steal. But I'm guessing your success rate will be lowered.

Yeah, I might have to try that option.

I just laughed thinking about a player that keeps starting to go.. and then goes back. I could see the manager saying.. "What in the hell are you doing, attempt the steal dammit!"

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Ball is hit through the box past the pitcher to the SS (pbp says 2b which doesn't jive with the pbp) either way, ground ball 8th inning, down by 1 run and you have a 10/10 base runner - he at least attempts to score. There is no 3B coach in the ML that wouldn't send him.

I'm not buying it..

Was the infield playing in? Playing an infield shift perhaps?

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 12:56 PM

The ball was hit to 4M. If you look at the hit diagram, it's possible that 4M is considered an area to which the ball could be hit with the infield "in" and a runner would be forced to hold at third.

Retrosheet Hit Location Diagram

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

Was the infield playing in? Playing an infield shift perhaps?

I don't remember, to be honest. Even so, I would think once he looks the runner back to third, the DP probably wouldn't be turned unless Molina was running.

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 12:58 PM

Or maybe your opponent was Ron Roenicke or Joe Maddon -- and they used an outfielder as a "fifth" infielder.

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

I don't remember, to be honest. Even so, I would think once he looks the runner back to third, the DP probably wouldn't be turned unless Molina was running.

The 4M location would explain the DP, though. The ball was probably hit near the bag at second. It's still hard to imagine the baserunner not advancing. I'll post a bug report about it. Let's see what Markus thinks.

MizzouRah · 07-17-2012, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pstrickert

The 4M location would explain the DP, though. The ball was probably hit near the bag at second. It's still hard to imagine the baserunner not advancing. I'll post a bug report about it. Let's see what Markus thinks.

Thanks, I think the "man on third with less than two outs" logic needs to be looked at overall.

13 seasons and no World Series ring yet.. sigh...

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 01:05 PM

You're right. It may need a tweak. Thanks for reporting it.

SteveP · 07-17-2012, 01:10 PM

The explanation for this is simple:

If the infield is playing In, the AI will never advance the runner on 3B with less than 2 outs (based loaded being the obvious exception). If the infield is playing Out, the Inf will never attempt to throw the runner out at home. These "rules" seem to be pretty rigid in OOTP. The infield will be playing In in late innings in a close game.

There is one exception to the above, which occurs rarely: if the runner on 3B would score a walk-off run, he may try to advance even when the inf is playing In, and you will get a play at Home.

pstrickert · 07-17-2012, 01:32 PM

That'd make sense, SteveP. The ball location is odd -- but oh, well.

07-17-2012, 12:10 PM	#23
termcl Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 121	What really kills me is man on third, less than two outs, and I don't even get the option to try and tag up on deep flyouts. Seen that happen a bunch of times, doesn't matter if it's Rickey Henderson or Paul Konerko on third, you can't even TRY to score. A manager should always have the option to risk having the runner thrown out at the plate.

07-17-2012, 12:22 PM	#24
BIG17EASY Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,291	I've seen the double play/runner stays at third a little bit more than I'd like, maybe a half dozen times per season. It's maddening when it happens, but I usually just let my imagination explain it somehow. As for the runner staying at third on a ground ball with one out, it's standard strategy for runners on third base to go on contact with one out, especially good base runners. I'm not saying they should go 100 percent of the time, but probably more than 95 percent of the time.

07-17-2012, 12:34 PM	#26
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Troy, Mo Posts: 6,252	Also, when I give the steal sign, steal the freaking base! Don't keep saying, "he starts to go and then goes back". The CPU AI goes when it wants to, why do my players at times ignore my commands!

07-17-2012, 12:56 PM	#33
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,462	The ball was hit to 4M. If you look at the hit diagram, it's possible that 4M is considered an area to which the ball could be hit with the infield "in" and a runner would be forced to hold at third. Retrosheet Hit Location Diagram

07-17-2012, 12:58 PM	#35
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,462	Or maybe your opponent was Ron Roenicke or Joe Maddon -- and they used an outfielder as a "fifth" infielder.

07-17-2012, 01:05 PM	#38
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,462	You're right. It may need a tweak. Thanks for reporting it.

07-17-2012, 01:10 PM	#39
SteveP Moderator Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 3,109	The explanation for this is simple: If the infield is playing In, the AI will never advance the runner on 3B with less than 2 outs (based loaded being the obvious exception). If the infield is playing Out, the Inf will never attempt to throw the runner out at home. These "rules" seem to be pretty rigid in OOTP. The infield will be playing In in late innings in a close game. There is one exception to the above, which occurs rarely: if the runner on 3B would score a walk-off run, he may try to advance even when the inf is playing In, and you will get a play at Home.

07-17-2012, 01:32 PM	#40
pstrickert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 16,462	That'd make sense, SteveP. The ball location is odd -- but oh, well.