Data Editor and Data Structure

archibalduk · 07-05-2012, 04:27 PM

If I remember rightly, I read that OOTP don't intend on releasing a database editor with the first released of the WTHM game. Clearly that makes perfect sense because time is so precious and you have to get a fully working game up and running first! However, I was wondering whether OOTP planned to release a database editor at a later date - either as part of a game update or as part of a future edition of the game.

I know many may not regard an editor as that important, but I feel an editor is actually a very key part of the game. It might not be a big selling point, but I expect it will play a big part in developing the community. The EHM Pre-Game Editor has contributed hugely to the popularity of the game and the ability for users to post their own roster updates throughout the season increased the interest in the game (whilst the game was still in active development).

Something that would be particularly useful for any editor is the ability to export/import data via a spreadsheet. I have written my own tools to do this for EHM so that we can undertake all of our research in Excel and then my tool imports it directly into the database. This sort of function might be useful for WTHM because it will allow users to research their own rosters during the season (e.g. for a league that hasn't been researched for WTHM's release) which can subsequently be added to OOTP's master database for the next edition of the game. In my experience, there were a fair few users who didn't express an interest in undertaking research for EHM (or for the subsequent Manimal Rosters) but who, at a later date, undertook their own research for their own games. It would be great if users like this could later share their research for the benefit of the official game and wider community.

Secondly, I was wondering whether OOTP would be willing to publish the database structure once the game is released. The SI guys did the same for EHM 2005 and 2007 (see here) and this is why users have been able to develop editors and tools for EHM. I myself am interested in developing editors/tools for the WTHM game - but this is only possible if the structure is published. Essentially what I mean are the C/C++ structs for each database file.

GMO123 · 07-05-2012, 06:34 PM

Anything that gets the community involved will help to sell and spread the game.

The hockey game should be modifiable so that anyone can change the game to their own preference, and it should allow add-ons developed by users of the hockey game.

An active and enthusiastic hockey community is, in my viewpoint, a key to making this game successful.

Malte Schwarz · 07-06-2012, 03:08 AM

We will definitely release a database editor. I am not completely sure if we will publish the database structure, but right now, I think there is basically nothing to be said against it.

archibalduk · 07-06-2012, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malte Schwarz

We will definitely release a database editor.

Excellent news! An official editor will make life so much easier. Thanks for the speedy and emphatic response. :-)

Seeing as an editor will be released, the publication of the data structure would just be the icing on the cake. I'm interested in writing some data reporting and import/export tools to help make roster updating easier - but if the structure cannot be published, I could always provide my plans as suggestions for the official editor.

erikthered · 07-07-2012, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malte Schwarz

We will definitely release a database editor. I am not completely sure if we will publish the database structure, but right now, I think there is basically nothing to be said against it.

Hey, you could always charge a 5 bucks for an editor and the database structure. I'm sure the people that would use it the most would be happy to pay for it if they knew it would additional financial stability to the Hockey Manager project.

dave1927p · 07-08-2012, 03:42 AM

Additional "DLC" has no place in these sort of games...so Erik, i must disagree with you. I'd refuse to purchase any DLC for a text based sports sim, or a sports videogame in general, it wouldn't matter how good the content. (if done by third party i'd consider donating, and i'd consider making a donation if it meant we see a future version but i will never pay for DLC in a game like this)
...i really don't see ootp ever trying to do something like that anyways - it would upset alot of people. We expect that sort of thing from EA Sports but people would be blindsided if done by ootp.

Malte Schwarz · 07-08-2012, 02:16 PM

We will not charge for the editor or any other additional content. All updates will be free of charge up to the next full version of the game.

Cryomaniac · 07-12-2012, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave1927p

Additional "DLC" has no place in these sort of games...so Erik, i must disagree with you. I'd refuse to purchase any DLC for a text based sports sim, or a sports videogame in general, it wouldn't matter how good the content. (if done by third party i'd consider donating, and i'd consider making a donation if it meant we see a future version but i will never pay for DLC in a game like this)
...i really don't see ootp ever trying to do something like that anyways - it would upset alot of people. We expect that sort of thing from EA Sports but people would be blindsided if done by ootp.

IMHO paid for DLC has little place in any type of game, but maybe that's just me.

erikthered · 07-12-2012, 11:04 PM

I was half joking. I say half-joking because I do want to see this project be financially stable enough to continue for years to come with ever-increasing improvements, unlike a certain other hockey simulator which has sadly died out in terms of actual game development.

07-05-2012, 04:27 PM	#1
archibalduk All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: UK Posts: 1,209	Data Editor and Data Structure If I remember rightly, I read that OOTP don't intend on releasing a database editor with the first released of the WTHM game. Clearly that makes perfect sense because time is so precious and you have to get a fully working game up and running first! However, I was wondering whether OOTP planned to release a database editor at a later date - either as part of a game update or as part of a future edition of the game. I know many may not regard an editor as that important, but I feel an editor is actually a very key part of the game. It might not be a big selling point, but I expect it will play a big part in developing the community. The EHM Pre-Game Editor has contributed hugely to the popularity of the game and the ability for users to post their own roster updates throughout the season increased the interest in the game (whilst the game was still in active development). Something that would be particularly useful for any editor is the ability to export/import data via a spreadsheet. I have written my own tools to do this for EHM so that we can undertake all of our research in Excel and then my tool imports it directly into the database. This sort of function might be useful for WTHM because it will allow users to research their own rosters during the season (e.g. for a league that hasn't been researched for WTHM's release) which can subsequently be added to OOTP's master database for the next edition of the game. In my experience, there were a fair few users who didn't express an interest in undertaking research for EHM (or for the subsequent Manimal Rosters) but who, at a later date, undertook their own research for their own games. It would be great if users like this could later share their research for the benefit of the official game and wider community. Secondly, I was wondering whether OOTP would be willing to publish the database structure once the game is released. The SI guys did the same for EHM 2005 and 2007 (see here) and this is why users have been able to develop editors and tools for EHM. I myself am interested in developing editors/tools for the WTHM game - but this is only possible if the structure is published. Essentially what I mean are the C/C++ structs for each database file. __________________ Webmaster of The Blue Line Eastside Hockey Manager & Franchise Hockey Manager community and resource

07-08-2012, 03:42 AM	#6
dave1927p FHM Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Brantford, ON Posts: 2,908	Additional "DLC" has no place in these sort of games...so Erik, i must disagree with you. I'd refuse to purchase any DLC for a text based sports sim, or a sports videogame in general, it wouldn't matter how good the content. (if done by third party i'd consider donating, and i'd consider making a donation if it meant we see a future version but i will never pay for DLC in a game like this) ...i really don't see ootp ever trying to do something like that anyways - it would upset alot of people. We expect that sort of thing from EA Sports but people would be blindsided if done by ootp. __________________ IN 1964 THE LEAFS WON THE STANLEY CUP :: IT'S ALSO THE YEAR THE CANADIAN FLAG WAS DESIGNED...coincidence? Last edited by dave1927p; 07-08-2012 at 03:46 AM.

07-05-2012, 06:34 PM	#2
GMO123 Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 424	Anything that gets the community involved will help to sell and spread the game. The hockey game should be modifiable so that anyone can change the game to their own preference, and it should allow add-ons developed by users of the hockey game. An active and enthusiastic hockey community is, in my viewpoint, a key to making this game successful.

07-06-2012, 03:08 AM	#3
Malte Schwarz Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,983	We will definitely release a database editor. I am not completely sure if we will publish the database structure, but right now, I think there is basically nothing to be said against it.

07-08-2012, 02:16 PM	#7
Malte Schwarz Moderator Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 1,983	We will not charge for the editor or any other additional content. All updates will be free of charge up to the next full version of the game.

07-12-2012, 11:04 PM	#9
erikthered Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 99	I was half joking. I say half-joking because I do want to see this project be financially stable enough to continue for years to come with ever-increasing improvements, unlike a certain other hockey simulator which has sadly died out in terms of actual game development.