Stealing Bases rating: your understanding?

[uabfan]

I was browsing around for general OOTP tips yesterday when I read something regarding the Stealing Bases(SB)/Running Speed(SPD) ratings combo that confused me. I know that a guy with a '5' SPD rating (on 1-10 scale) but '9' SB rating is going to be more successful stealing that you would expect and vice-versa. But this thread mentioned that the SB rating also affects how often a player attempts to steal a base. I've never read that before.

The point, made in the thread, was that the "neutral" setting on the "Stealing Bases" Player Strategy slider (not Team Strategy) could be a different magnitude, for lack of a better word, for each player based on SPD/SB ratings combo. So, taking the examples above:

The (5)SPD/(9)SB player is going to be more hesitant to attempt to steal bases with his slider at neutral than the (9)SPD/5(SB). So the right setting is to bump the first player's slider up to encourage him to run more and bump the second player's slider down to rein him in.

I had thought of sliders as actual values. In the case of Stealing Bases, I had understood the neutral setting to mean the player will attempt to steal a base at a rate roughly equal the average of the league. So if all players average steal attempts 24% of the time they have the chance, a player who's slider is a neutral will come out to around the same number. What I read seems to say neutral for the 5/9 guy would be around 20% and for the 9/5 guy around 30%. Which is the case?

[JohnHoward]

I will try to explain my take on this in analogue terms, instead of probability theory terms, so I'm going to use some words in a loose sense.

The "neutral" setting is relative to all slider settings in the league-specific context for that basestealer. If the league itself runs "high" in attempts, then the "neutral" setting may be below the baseline and won't necessarily generate a pre-fixed number of attempts close to the baseline. To make a long story short, if you want to maximize attempts you need to run the sliders all the way to the right, as well as adjusting your manager's strategy sliders to run more. If you want to "neutralize" attempts, setting everything in the middle won't always do it, depending on what else is happening in the league.

That's my view of it. I hope it is clear enough.

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by uabfan

In the case of Stealing Bases, I had understood the neutral setting to mean the player will attempt to steal a base at a rate roughly equal the average of the league. So if all players average steal attempts 24% of the time they have the chance, a player who's slider is a neutral will come out to around the same number. What I read seems to say neutral for the 5/9 guy would be around 20% and for the 9/5 guy around 30%. Which is the case?

Give or take a few percentage points i'd agree with this
That's how i've understood it
Though i've seen created players with high speed and steal ratings will have their strategy for stealing already set to be higher so not sure how that works into this

Also remember the player will default to the team strategy unless set to override so that is also a factor to consider

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by uabfan

I was browsing around for general OOTP tips yesterday when I read something regarding the Stealing Bases(SB)/Running Speed(SPD) ratings combo that confused me. I know that a guy with a '5' SPD rating (on 1-10 scale) but '9' SB rating is going to be more successful stealing that you would expect and vice-versa. But this thread mentioned that the SB rating also affects how often a player attempts to steal a base. I've never read that before.

The point, made in the thread, was that the "neutral" setting on the "Stealing Bases" Player Strategy slider (not Team Strategy) could be a different magnitude, for lack of a better word, for each player based on SPD/SB ratings combo. So, taking the examples above:

The (5)SPD/(9)SB player is going to be more hesitant to attempt to steal bases with his slider at neutral than the (9)SPD/5(SB). So the right setting is to bump the first player's slider up to encourage him to run more and bump the second player's slider down to rein him in.

I had thought of sliders as actual values. In the case of Stealing Bases, I had understood the neutral setting to mean the player will attempt to steal a base at a rate roughly equal the average of the league. So if all players average steal attempts 24% of the time they have the chance, a player who's slider is a neutral will come out to around the same number. What I read seems to say neutral for the 5/9 guy would be around 20% and for the 9/5 guy around 30%. Which is the case?

Just curious if you've done any actual tests on this? I'm thinking it's the other way around, but would really like to see some raw data/stats to show which way it is. My thinking is the guy with the better SB rating is going more often just because he's supposedly better at stealing bases than the guy with 9 spd. Like I say, I could be wrong but really the only way to know for sure is through testing/stats.

Tks

[OutS|der]

From the OOTP Manual (RTFM)

Stealing Bases is a measure of how good a player is at stealing. Stealing bases is not a matter only of speed, but also timing, knowledge of pitchers, and ability to 'get a good jump.' It is possible for a player to have a high Running Speed rating, but a low Stealing Bases rating, and vice versa, although the most dangerous baserunners have high ratings in both. A combination of strategy settings for stealing bases and Running Speed is used to determine how often a runner is given a "green light" to steal a base. Speed and pitcher Hold Rating then determine how good a jump the runner gets. If he gets a good jump and goes (ie a stolen base attempt) the Catcher Arm, pitcher Hold Rating, the type of pitch and Stealing Bases rating are the factors which determine whether the runner is safe.

So Blue has it right the higher the SB rating would result in more attempts because they would know when to go more.

The strategy is the green light so higher means they would be given it more compared to average

[uabfan]

Thanks for the responses! I think what I'm trying to establish is exactly how the Player Strategy slider works in terms of Stealing Bases. So let's put the question this way:

Setting all other factors aside (i.e., same league, same manager, vs. same pitcher, vs. same catcher), when you override team strategy and use the "Stealing Bases" slider for individual players the impact should be one of two things:

Player A: Very high combination of STL and SPD ratings
Player B: Average combination of STL SPD ratings

a)

(steal attempts per player relative to entire league)
A (very few)-------------------A (typical)----------------------A (a lot)
B (very few)-------------------B (typical)----------------------B (a lot)
<----------------------------------------------------------------------->

OR, b)

A (around typical)---------------A (more)-------------------A (hardcore)
B (very few)--------------------B (typical)------------------B (a lot)
<----------------------------------------------------------------------->

So if I have a player with 9/9 STL/SPD and I push his stealing bases slider all the way to the right, am I taking his attempts from league avg to "a lot", or from "a lot" (his "default" setting because he knows he's good) to "Rickey Henderson ridiculous"?

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Originally Posted by uabfan

So if I have a player with 9/9 STL/SPD and I push his stealing bases slider all the way to the right, am I taking his attempts from league avg to "a lot", or from "a lot" (his "default" setting because he knows he's good) to "Rickey Henderson ridiculous"?

The latter. This is easy to test. If you leave everything at default, you will see better base stealers attempt more stolen bases than players who aren't good base stealers.

[Childress]

A bit O/T but I have a question. In OOTP players who have low speed/steal ratings also suffer from downgraded base running ability. Why? One assumes if base running is an independent category it should not be speed dependent.

A slow, aging player could still have superior sense when it comes to advancing. The sense that comes from experience and self-awareness. As a matter of fact, this is an abilty that should always improve with age.

[uabfan]

Originally Posted by Childress

A bit O/T but I have a question. In OOTP players who have low speed/steal ratings also suffer from downgraded base running ability. Why? One assumes if base running is an independent category it should not be speed dependent.

A slow, aging player could still have superior sense when it comes to advancing. The sense that comes from experience and self-awareness. As a matter of fact, this is an abilty that should always improve with age.

LOL! As someone who played pro ball (2 months in rookie camp before I hauled my butt to college), I was graded as high as possible on baseball "IQ" but speed was a liability (I was just 5'9", 180-lbs, but was cursed with short legs and horrible running form). Speed should absolutely be part of Baserunning and while I could see it bumping very early in development, it's all downhill from there. What is the saying? "You can't coach speed." Knowing when you can take that extra base or even draw a throw that puts a runner in scoring position hardly makes a difference when those occasions are only going to come up a couple dozen times a year thanks to having a speed handicap.