Worst Scoring Decision, Ever

[KurtBevacqua]

OK, serious lapse in AI judgement here. Indians-Tigers, one hour rain delay. David Huff relieves Jimenez in the top of the fifth, gives up a single then a homer and is promptly yanked. Indians hold on to win the game and Huff gets the win. Umm, might want to tweak something in the gamecode if the AI official scorer judged Huff to be the most effective reliever and worthy of the win.

[FunkyBike1]

Guys, you might want to fix this.

[Dutch Alexander]

I'm not sure if the AI in this situation determines who the most effective reliever is. That might be hard to code in. I guess in these situations automatically the second pitcher gets the win.

[DaddyO]

Am I missing something? Huff clearly gave up two earned runs, yet his ERA shows as 0.00?

[Victor]

well technically you can't have an ERA until you've gotten at least one out

[brewdog]

If he has yet to record an out his ERA is infinity IIRC the game displays this as 0.00

[Klew1986]

Did the Indians retake the lead after Huff was inserted as the pitcher and before Cook was brought in? If the Indians scored and took the lead while Huff was still pitcher, yes, he gets the win.

[joefromchicago]

The starter couldn't get the victory because he didn't go five innings. Huff came on with his team holding a lead it never gave up. The vast majority of MLB scorers would have done exactly what the AI did here: give Huff the victory. It's true that the rules state the scorer can give the win to the most effective reliever, but that happens so rarely it's not worth incorporating it into the game.

[sc_superstar]

Yeah Huff didnt give up the lead, starter didnt go 5 he gets the win, subjectional coding not gonna happen here. unless the rule changes to "relief pitcher needs to get an out to be eligible for a win" then its legit

[cmdrsam]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The starter couldn't get the victory because he didn't go five innings. Huff came on with his team holding a lead it never gave up. The vast majority of MLB scorers would have done exactly what the AI did here: give Huff the victory. It's true that the rules state the scorer can give the win to the most effective reliever, but that happens so rarely it's not worth incorporating it into the game.

I am going to agree here.

[OldFatGuy]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The starter couldn't get the victory because he didn't go five innings. Huff came on with his team holding a lead it never gave up. The vast majority of MLB scorers would have done exactly what the AI did here: give Huff the victory. It's true that the rules state the scorer can give the win to the most effective reliever, but that happens so rarely it's not worth incorporating it into the game.

This is true, but still I've gotta believe IRL if a pitcher can't even record one out, he won't get the win. I don't think I've ever heard of a pitcher getting the win without recording a single out.

I think there have been a case here or there where a pitcher got a win without ever throwing a pitch (by entering with 2 out and picking off a runner for out 3), but I don't recall one where a pitcher got a win without ever recording an out.

[Hasta la vista pelota]

Originally Posted by OldFatGuy

This is true, but still I've gotta believe IRL if a pitcher can't even record one out, he won't get the win. I don't think I've ever heard of a pitcher getting the win without recording a single out.

I think there have been a case here or there where a pitcher got a win without ever throwing a pitch (by entering with 2 out and picking off a runner for out 3), but I don't recall one where a pitcher got a win without ever recording an out.

Agreed. Here's the rule (emphasis mine):

Rule 10.17
(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense, then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.
Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score), in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.
(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.
Rule 10.17(c) Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous pitcher). Rule 10.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among several succeeding relief pitchers.

I believe almost every scorer would have given the win to either Cook or Perez, probably Cook though Perez was more effective. I can't see any scorer awarding Huff, the rule book is pretty clear on this.

[sc_superstar]

but how can the AI judge this? The only way would be to code it so you have to record an out for a win.

[yclept]

Almost impossible for the AI to judge this, but it is wrong to say that official scorers typically give it to the next pitcher who enters the game. From what I have seen, they are actually pretty good at giving it to a pitcher who was actually effective.

[big freddy]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

The starter couldn't get the victory because he didn't go five innings. Huff came on with his team holding a lead it never gave up. The vast majority of MLB scorers would have done exactly what the AI did here: give Huff the victory. It's true that the rules state the scorer can give the win to the most effective reliever, but that happens so rarely it's not worth incorporating it into the game.

As a former official scorer, there is no way Huff gets the win. I might have given the win to the 3rd pitcher that came into the game. Most likely I would have given R. Perez the win as he went 1 1/3 innings allowing nothing. I would say 100% of official scorers would have not given Huff the win.

Having said that I can't imagine what it would take to get it right. It would be nearly impossible to incorporate that into the game unless you allowed the user to edit the decision.

One thing I have noticed this game struggles with is earned runs. There are times when a run should have been earned, but it goes as unearned. I imagine that's another tough thing to do because the run becomes earned AFTER the runner scored. Let's say, a runner is on 1st with 1 out. He steals 2nd base, and the catcher throws it into the outfield. The next guy drives him in with a fly ball. The run at that point is unearned, which the game correctly gives. However, if the next guy gets a hit that would have drove the runner in if he was on 2nd, then the run becomes earned, but the game has already passed the point to give pitcher an unearned run.

[Hasta la vista pelota]

Originally Posted by sc_superstar

but how can the AI judge this? The only way would be to code it so you have to record an out for a win.

Other sims (Strat, DMB for example) seem to be able to do this, so it's possible. Those sims seem to go by game ERA, though, so those games usually award a win to a reliever who allowed no runs over one-third inning over a guy who gave up one run over three.

Then again, the OP's example was unusual.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by big freddy

As a former official scorer, there is no way Huff gets the win. I might have given the win to the 3rd pitcher that came into the game. Most likely I would have given R. Perez the win as he went 1 1/3 innings allowing nothing. I would say 100% of official scorers would have not given Huff the win.

Having said that I can't imagine what it would take to get it right. It would be nearly impossible to incorporate that into the game unless you allowed the user to edit the decision.

One thing I have noticed this game struggles with is earned runs. There are times when a run should have been earned, but it goes as unearned. I imagine that's another tough thing to do because the run becomes earned AFTER the runner scored. Let's say, a runner is on 1st with 1 out. He steals 2nd base, and the catcher throws it into the outfield. The next guy drives him in with a fly ball. The run at that point is unearned, which the game correctly gives. However, if the next guy gets a hit that would have drove the runner in if he was on 2nd, then the run becomes earned, but the game has already passed the point to give pitcher an unearned run.

I might be missing something, but I did try, and failed, to find a way to change the players's stats. I know DMB let's you go in and change player stats, but I don't think OOTP does.

[endgame]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

I might be missing something, but I did try, and failed, to find a way to change the players's stats. I know DMB let's you go in and change player stats, but I don't think OOTP does.

I'm assuming you attempted an export/import with csv's? I'm curious as to whether that function- even with regard to name changes, e.g. -works as intended. Been on my backburner forever.

[KurtBevacqua]

Woops, happened again, same game, two seasons later.

[RonP]

Why did he relieve Ubaldo, anyway?
Ron