Thought on Foreign Player %

Seviien · 02-21-2012, 04:07 PM

Is there value in expanding/redefining the draft pool's foreign player % to allow us to set the % of players from each country individually, rather than as a blanket "foreigners" bucket? I'm not sure how tricky it would be to implement, but I think it would add a lot of additional depth to the new affiliated leagues feature.

Specifically, it would make it easy to cluster a handful of nations into a single league and to stock that league with players only from those nations. That could give rise to things like the champion of a “European League,” that was **filled with only European players** playing the champion of a “Caribbean League,” that was likewise populated only with players from the Caribbean.

Moreover, with the already existing option to impose a limit on foreign born players, this could give rise to national teams within the clustered leagues. To extend the example above, the European league could have 4 teams in England, 8 in Germany, and 4 in France. With the associated % for the draft pool being 25%, 50%, and 25%, respectively, that league could plausibly work with each team only allowed to stock itself with its own national players. (Although the draft pool might need to be expanded slightly.)

Right now, I think the only options toward creating something like this would be to either have a separate league for each country or to create a HUGE draft pool. The huge draft pool is not ideal for a few obvious reasons; having a separate league for each country could lead to the world feeling more "fractured" -- especially with the real time sim option that's also new for v13.

Would this appeal to anyone else?
(And perhaps more importantly... does it appeal to Markus

Bluenoser · 02-21-2012, 07:34 PM

I like the idea of the %, but thought I'd mention this:

With league associations, you would be able to create your European League as you mentioned, 4 in France, 8 in Germany, 4 in England. You could set foreigner % to zero for each league, thereby having only players from that country in that countries league. Then with the way associations work, I think you could still have the champions of each league play each other to decide an overall European Champion.

Same would apply for the Carribean League and any others.

I'm not positive this will work, until we get 13 and can actually see how the Associations operate we won't know for sure. From what I've read about them though I believe this would work.

Still, it would be nice if you could set up a league say in the US and specify that you want 15% foreign players - 5% from Dominican, 5% from Cuba, and 5% from Venezuela for a total of 15% in your league, having the remaining 85% from the USA.

Good suggestion though.

hfield007 · 02-21-2012, 08:56 PM

Love this suggestion.

I mean you can select the percentage of nationalities making up a nation in the nation editor it'd be awesome if we could have a similar setup for our newly created players.

Seviien · 02-21-2012, 09:17 PM

Thanks Bluenoser.
Are you sure that OOTP will generate players with nationality that's proportional to the nationality of team mix? I thought that [1-(foreign player %)] would have the nationality that's set for the entire league. At least... that's how I thought it worked way back when I tested it circa v2006 or so.

Layton is my Homeboy · 02-21-2012, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

With league associations, you would be able to create your European League as you mentioned, 4 in France, 8 in Germany, 4 in England. You could set foreigner % to zero for each league, thereby having only players from that country in that countries league. Then with the way associations work, I think you could still have the champions of each league play each other to decide an overall European Champion.

Same would apply for the Carribean League and any others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seviien

Thanks Bluenoser.
Are you sure that OOTP will generate players with nationality that's proportional to the nationality of team mix? I thought that [1-(foreign player %)] would have the nationality that's set for the entire league. At least... that's how I thought it worked way back when I tested it circa v2006 or so.

I think that what Bluenoser is saying is that you could create a separate league for each country you want in Europe, and then associate them so that the champions of each league play each other in a European championship.

If you want to have all of those European teams in the same league, I don't think that there will be a way to have just European players in that league. The only way that I can think of is to set a foreign player limit based on the team nationality (something that you can do in OOTP 12). Then, in order to ensure that there are enough players of each nationality, you'd have to put a feeder league in each of the countries represented in the European league.

Another way that you can try to manipulate the mix of nationalities represented in a league is to create a large number of feeder leagues from each of the countries that you want represented in the league. This won't prevent Asian or Caribbean players from playing in your European league (or vice versa), but you can increase the number of European players in your European league by creating a series of European feeder leagues.

Bluenoser · 02-22-2012, 05:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seviien

Thanks Bluenoser.
Are you sure that OOTP will generate players with nationality that's proportional to the nationality of team mix? I thought that [1-(foreign player %)] would have the nationality that's set for the entire league. At least... that's how I thought it worked way back when I tested it circa v2006 or so.

Yes, what Layton said is what I meant. I should have spelled it out better.

For example, I often do a Canadian League and set the foreigner % to 0, thereby having only Canadian born players in my league.

So if you made your English, French, and German leagues seperate leagues on their own, and set the % to 0, you'd get only German players in the German league and so on.

By associating those leagues you could still have each leagues champion play each other for your eventual European Chanpion. (This is the part I'm unsure of until we get to see how the whole association thing shakes out) but it would work for what you're wanting to do if associations work the way I understand they will.

Cheers

boshk · 02-22-2012, 10:43 AM

the big problem right now with multiple countries in the same league is that when it is a feeder league, when you set the foreigner % to 0, it only populates with the league country, and not the teams. sometime before one of the patches, the teams would populate with the teams in the league, but it would randomize the countries on each team. so if you made a great britain league, you could have 5 guys from england, 5 from scotlad, 5 from wales, etc, on the team that is based in england. i dont understand that if the other leagues have the "limit based on team nationality" check box, why cant feeders have that too?

i also have an independent world minor league. that i expand every so often, and when i dont have players in my universe that are of the teams origin, i have to use the "fill roster" button, and when i do that, it maybe gives the team 3 players on average of the country that team plays for. the game is at least smart enough to place the other 22 players in the reserve roster, but it should have never generated those players in the first place if i have the league set to 0% with it based on team nationality.

shawa666 · 02-22-2012, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Yes, what Layton said is what I meant. I should have spelled it out better.

For example, I often do a Canadian League and set the foreigner % to 0, thereby having only Canadian born players in my league.

So if you made your English, French, and German leagues seperate leagues on their own, and set the % to 0, you'd get only German players in the German league and so on.

By associating those leagues you could still have each leagues champion play each other for your eventual European Chanpion. (This is the part I'm unsure of until we get to see how the whole association thing shakes out) but it would work for what you're wanting to do if associations work the way I understand they will.

Cheers

This is close to what I do when I start a modern Canadian Baseball League setup.

Foreign player rate 1% to account for immigration
PCM's set to .925 - I want my league to produce a few stars and mainly AAAA guys
Salaries at about 10% of Major League. A big name will get 1 to 2 millions year
6 foreign roster spots.

Seviien · 12-12-2013, 11:37 PM

i got's me a grown-up job and not one but (somehow) two mortgages now… so i'm a lot less active than i used to be 5 years or so ago.

I've recently come back to ootp as a player, and looking at v14 vs v13, it's pretty clear Markus picked up this feature. through this post or otherwise. given the time i put in on player development back around 2006-2008 or so, either way, this feels all kinds of awesome. Never really felt like anyone was listening back then.

That said...
Thank you, Markus, for making a product I've loved since v2 and that has given so much enjoyment to so many. Since i've been working to make a living for my family and constantly wrestling with the go-out-on-my-own vs. take-a-steady-paycheck dilemma… I have a bit of a new perspective. Thank you so sincerely for having the courage to strike out on your own and make something beautiful.

02-21-2012, 04:07 PM	#1
Seviien All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 925	Thought on Foreign Player % Is there value in expanding/redefining the draft pool's foreign player % to allow us to set the % of players from each country individually, rather than as a blanket "foreigners" bucket? I'm not sure how tricky it would be to implement, but I think it would add a lot of additional depth to the new affiliated leagues feature. Specifically, it would make it easy to cluster a handful of nations into a single league and to stock that league with players only from those nations. That could give rise to things like the champion of a “European League,” that was filled with only European players playing the champion of a “Caribbean League,” that was likewise populated only with players from the Caribbean. Moreover, with the already existing option to impose a limit on foreign born players, this could give rise to national teams within the clustered leagues. To extend the example above, the European league could have 4 teams in England, 8 in Germany, and 4 in France. With the associated % for the draft pool being 25%, 50%, and 25%, respectively, that league could plausibly work with each team only allowed to stock itself with its own national players. (Although the draft pool might need to be expanded slightly.) Right now, I think the only options toward creating something like this would be to either have a separate league for each country or to create a HUGE draft pool. The huge draft pool is not ideal for a few obvious reasons; having a separate league for each country could lead to the world feeling more "fractured" -- especially with the real time sim option that's also new for v13. Would this appeal to anyone else? (And perhaps more importantly... does it appeal to Markus Last edited by Seviien; 02-21-2012 at 04:08 PM.

02-21-2012, 07:34 PM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,224	I like the idea of the %, but thought I'd mention this: With league associations, you would be able to create your European League as you mentioned, 4 in France, 8 in Germany, 4 in England. You could set foreigner % to zero for each league, thereby having only players from that country in that countries league. Then with the way associations work, I think you could still have the champions of each league play each other to decide an overall European Champion. Same would apply for the Carribean League and any others. I'm not positive this will work, until we get 13 and can actually see how the Associations operate we won't know for sure. From what I've read about them though I believe this would work. Still, it would be nice if you could set up a league say in the US and specify that you want 15% foreign players - 5% from Dominican, 5% from Cuba, and 5% from Venezuela for a total of 15% in your league, having the remaining 85% from the USA. Good suggestion though.

02-21-2012, 08:56 PM	#3
hfield007 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,713	Love this suggestion. I mean you can select the percentage of nationalities making up a nation in the nation editor it'd be awesome if we could have a similar setup for our newly created players.

02-21-2012, 09:17 PM	#4
Seviien All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 925	Thanks Bluenoser. Are you sure that OOTP will generate players with nationality that's proportional to the nationality of team mix? I thought that [1-(foreign player %)] would have the nationality that's set for the entire league. At least... that's how I thought it worked way back when I tested it circa v2006 or so.

02-22-2012, 10:43 AM	#7
boshk All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 532	the big problem right now with multiple countries in the same league is that when it is a feeder league, when you set the foreigner % to 0, it only populates with the league country, and not the teams. sometime before one of the patches, the teams would populate with the teams in the league, but it would randomize the countries on each team. so if you made a great britain league, you could have 5 guys from england, 5 from scotlad, 5 from wales, etc, on the team that is based in england. i dont understand that if the other leagues have the "limit based on team nationality" check box, why cant feeders have that too? i also have an independent world minor league. that i expand every so often, and when i dont have players in my universe that are of the teams origin, i have to use the "fill roster" button, and when i do that, it maybe gives the team 3 players on average of the country that team plays for. the game is at least smart enough to place the other 22 players in the reserve roster, but it should have never generated those players in the first place if i have the league set to 0% with it based on team nationality.

12-12-2013, 11:37 PM	#9
Seviien All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 925	i got's me a grown-up job and not one but (somehow) two mortgages now… so i'm a lot less active than i used to be 5 years or so ago. I've recently come back to ootp as a player, and looking at v14 vs v13, it's pretty clear Markus picked up this feature. through this post or otherwise. given the time i put in on player development back around 2006-2008 or so, either way, this feels all kinds of awesome. Never really felt like anyone was listening back then. That said... Thank you, Markus, for making a product I've loved since v2 and that has given so much enjoyment to so many. Since i've been working to make a living for my family and constantly wrestling with the go-out-on-my-own vs. take-a-steady-paycheck dilemma… I have a bit of a new perspective. Thank you so sincerely for having the courage to strike out on your own and make something beautiful.