Free Agents signing late - Page 2

Mike Donlin · 11-20-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So the current system is broken then...correct?

For the most part, yes. Here is what I am going to try:

1. Fix the financials database text file so that Cash Maximum is four times the superstar player salary.
2. Sim year by year, stopping when free agents file to make sure that teams have enough cash to sign free agents. My latest plan is to increase national media contract by enough to put every team in the black. That way, even teams that are already in the black will have added revenue.

I agree with you PSU, it is saddening that this very serious bug has lingered and lingered, and not for lack of complaining. Although I seem to recall that Markus said his test leagues ran fine in this respect. He must be playing a different game than me, though.

Mike Donlin · 11-20-2011, 09:18 AM

If this doesn't work, I'll just turn finances off, which will be a shame. Finances are fun!

SandMan · 11-20-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

So the current system is broken then...correct?

I would not say it is broken. Not every team runs the spending to the limit and then has no money in the next season to sign extensions or free agents. I would say just play and see what the AI teams do. Test run a league for 20-25 years and you will see if the finances are hosed. I have learned to keep my finances in order by not signing all my eligible arbitration players and letting older Free Agency eligible players go to FA. I really don't care if the AI teams don't have funds or not. It just bothers me a bit to see some Free Agents not being signed.

Mike Donlin · 11-21-2011, 11:08 AM

It's hopeless. I'm turning off finances. Or going back to 11, where finances worked--for the most part.

This is very frustrating.

markprior22 · 11-21-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Donlin

It's hopeless. I'm turning off finances. Or going back to 11, where finances worked--for the most part.

This is very frustrating.

I'm considering doing the same but wondered about long term financial stability in 11. I've never simmed 25 yrs before (to get rid of initial pool of players) so I don't honestly know if ver 11 is any better. Do you know for a fact that it is?

Mecza · 11-21-2011, 03:52 PM

I'll agree that something isn't working right. I have made many previous posts about how many of my test leagues had wonky financials with many teams in the red and star free agents going unsigned.

That being said, I have worked around it by increasing revenue. I increased it to a point where players are being paid, nearly all teams are in the black, and salaries are not massively inflated. It took me nearly a week of testing to realize that teams were just not making enough money. It sucked, but I have been able to find a way to get financials working like I wanted them to.

I think that for future release(s):

1: AI improvement regarding financial decisions.
2: A salary cap that is hard with the AI understanding that. If you have a salary cap you might as well play with arbitration off.
3: Default settings regarding revenues and expense working correctly.

In my current league which I am dead last in budget money with around $86 million. At least 15 million of that goes to player development, scouting, and personnel. (20 team league, no divisions or sub leagues, top 4 make playoffs, one level of minors and HS feeders) I need to give myself roughly 3 million in wiggle room for unexpected expenses for trades or whatever. Even though I have a budget of $86 mil, only $68 really go to players. I think the AI has a very hard time understanding that budget =/ player payroll limit.

The team that just won the championship has a budget of $192 mil (good for 4th overall. Highest is 252 mil. My league has its own version of the yankees). League average salary is 3.1 mil. MLB average for opening day of 2011? 3.3 mil.

My financials aren't exactly in line with MLB, but it is realistic enough for me to enjoy.

Mike Donlin · 11-21-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markprior22

I'm considering doing the same but wondered about long term financial stability in 11. I've never simmed 25 yrs before (to get rid of initial pool of players) so I don't honestly know if ver 11 is any better. Do you know for a fact that it is?

I always sim 25 years, and I remember that star free agents went unsigned from time to time in 11, but not every time, as in 12.

Mike Donlin · 11-21-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecza

I'll agree that something isn't working right. I have made many previous posts about how many of my test leagues had wonky financials with many teams in the red and star free agents going unsigned.

That being said, I have worked around it by increasing revenue. I increased it to a point where players are being paid, nearly all teams are in the black, and salaries are not massively inflated. It took me nearly a week of testing to realize that teams were just not making enough money. It sucked, but I have been able to find a way to get financials working like I wanted them to.

I think that for future release(s):

1: AI improvement regarding financial decisions.
2: A salary cap that is hard with the AI understanding that. If you have a salary cap you might as well play with arbitration off.
3: Default settings regarding revenues and expense working correctly.

In my current league which I am dead last in budget money with around $86 million. At least 15 million of that goes to player development, scouting, and personnel. (20 team league, no divisions or sub leagues, top 4 make playoffs, one level of minors and HS feeders) I need to give myself roughly 3 million in wiggle room for unexpected expenses for trades or whatever. Even though I have a budget of $86 mil, only $68 really go to players. I think the AI has a very hard time understanding that budget =/ player payroll limit.

The team that just won the championship has a budget of $192 mil (good for 4th overall. Highest is 252 mil. My league has its own version of the yankees). League average salary is 3.1 mil. MLB average for opening day of 2011? 3.3 mil.

My financials aren't exactly in line with MLB, but it is realistic enough for me to enjoy.

What do the final numbers look like? What did the trick?

We need to start a public appeal to Markus to fix this. It really does make the game unplayable over the long haul. Hell, even over the short haul.

Mecza · 11-21-2011, 04:14 PM

This is what I do.

I run a 152 game balanced schedule which results in some of the funky media numbers. Basically, I increased revenue by 18 million. It's evenly distributed through media and merchandise.

Mike Donlin · 11-21-2011, 04:18 PM

Did you reduce scouting too? Or any other expenses?

Edit: Also, did you raise cash max? And do you make these changes to the finances database file or do them manually each year?

Mecza · 11-21-2011, 04:26 PM

Did not reduce scouting. Did not reduce other expenses.

Did not raise cash max. Did not change the database file. I simply supplied additional average revenue to my league. I do not have to make any yearly adjustments.

Mike Donlin · 11-26-2011, 04:53 PM

Going back to 11.

Mecza, even these settings did not work if you sim far enough into the future.

What a shame.

Mecza · 11-26-2011, 06:12 PM

How far? I did a 20 year test sim just now with a brand new fictional league and it all worked fine. 18/20 teams are in the black. I don't know what to tell ya...

PSUColonel · 11-26-2011, 07:51 PM

I am testing with different settings, and think I may have found a way to correct the problems. First these settings..

I need someone to test multiple seasons using each of these settings. I think I have made a lot of progress here, but I need to compare notes with others who have tried these as well.

Now try the same setting with the exception of the National Media Contract as "the same for all teams" Compare the two, and let me know what you think.

Mike Donlin · 11-26-2011, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecza

How far? I did a 20 year test sim just now with a brand new fictional league and it all worked fine. 18/20 teams are in the black. I don't know what to tell ya...

]
I too get most teams in the black, but too many free agents still go unsigned until the middle of the year, at best.

Mecza · 11-26-2011, 09:13 PM

Have you considered that you may have too may feeders? Are these free agents replacement level or stars? The fact that most teams are in the black tells me that teams HAVE money to spend, but they choose not to. To me, it sounds like a case of the players in free agency aren't that good and the AI is signing players mid-season to account for injuries or additional depth. My free agent classes see most quality players signed at most by spring training. A player or two trickles past that date, but it can be due to recovering from an injury or just negotiating for ages.

Mike Donlin · 11-27-2011, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecza

Have you considered that you may have too may feeders? Are these free agents replacement level or stars? The fact that most teams are in the black tells me that teams HAVE money to spend, but they choose not to. To me, it sounds like a case of the players in free agency aren't that good and the AI is signing players mid-season to account for injuries or additional depth. My free agent classes see most quality players signed at most by spring training. A player or two trickles past that date, but it can be due to recovering from an injury or just negotiating for ages.

No, no feeders, and like you I get most free agents signed, but it bothers me--perhaps more than it should--that star free agents go unsigned by the start of the year and are forced to take low, one-year contracts mid-season. After 15 or 20 or 25 years of simming, I get 1-3 of those each year. That never used to be the case in 11.

Tullius · 11-27-2011, 08:15 AM

I have not read the whole thread. Maybe the overall quality of all players in the league is too high so that AI teams have no desire to sign a high priced FA ? Some time ago i have read an advice that a "modern day injury" setting helps to prevent that you have too many high quality players.

Mike Donlin · 11-27-2011, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullius

I have not read the whole thread. Maybe the overall quality of all players in the league is too high so that AI teams have no desire to sign a high priced FA ? Some time ago i have read an advice that a "modern day injury" setting helps to prevent that you have too many high quality players.

These are 3, 4, and 5 WAR players sitting in free agency. They are star players regardless of other players in the league. Not easily replaceable, in other words, and therefore very much desirable.

SandMan · 11-27-2011, 12:00 PM

I don't know if raising the Media and Merchandise is a good long term solution. If you make more money than the budget is set for the owner just takes this without increasing the budget. I just had my owner take 54M in profit and did not raise the budget. If you are raising the media and merchandise revenue keep an eye on cash from owner.

I don't necessarily believe financials are broken, you just have to learn to spend wisely after you get a few season in. I used to keep my talent for as long as possible and had a lot of career players on my teams. Now I usually let them go by age 29 and start rebuilding again because I can't afford to keep all of my players. Once they hit arbitration I may be able to keep them for 1 or 2 years of the arbitration but once they start getting 12-13M in arbitration I let them go if I don't think they are worth the price. I also bid on low cost free agents and end up platooning a lot. Is my solution perfect - no. It works for me though. I guess I have learned that you can still win with 2 or 3 star players in your lineup, just be selective with your superstar signings.

11-21-2011, 04:14 PM	#29
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	This is what I do. I run a 152 game balanced schedule which results in some of the funky media numbers. Basically, I increased revenue by 18 million. It's evenly distributed through media and merchandise. Last edited by Mecza; 11-21-2011 at 04:16 PM.

11-21-2011, 04:18 PM	#30
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	Did you reduce scouting too? Or any other expenses? Edit: Also, did you raise cash max? And do you make these changes to the finances database file or do them manually each year? Last edited by Mike Donlin; 11-21-2011 at 04:21 PM.

11-27-2011, 12:00 PM	#40
SandMan Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,946	I don't know if raising the Media and Merchandise is a good long term solution. If you make more money than the budget is set for the owner just takes this without increasing the budget. I just had my owner take 54M in profit and did not raise the budget. If you are raising the media and merchandise revenue keep an eye on cash from owner. I don't necessarily believe financials are broken, you just have to learn to spend wisely after you get a few season in. I used to keep my talent for as long as possible and had a lot of career players on my teams. Now I usually let them go by age 29 and start rebuilding again because I can't afford to keep all of my players. Once they hit arbitration I may be able to keep them for 1 or 2 years of the arbitration but once they start getting 12-13M in arbitration I let them go if I don't think they are worth the price. I also bid on low cost free agents and end up platooning a lot. Is my solution perfect - no. It works for me though. I guess I have learned that you can still win with 2 or 3 star players in your lineup, just be selective with your superstar signings. Last edited by SandMan; 11-27-2011 at 12:10 PM.

11-20-2011, 09:18 AM	#22
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	If this doesn't work, I'll just turn finances off, which will be a shame. Finances are fun!

11-21-2011, 11:08 AM	#24
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	It's hopeless. I'm turning off finances. Or going back to 11, where finances worked--for the most part. This is very frustrating.

11-21-2011, 03:52 PM	#26
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	I'll agree that something isn't working right. I have made many previous posts about how many of my test leagues had wonky financials with many teams in the red and star free agents going unsigned. That being said, I have worked around it by increasing revenue. I increased it to a point where players are being paid, nearly all teams are in the black, and salaries are not massively inflated. It took me nearly a week of testing to realize that teams were just not making enough money. It sucked, but I have been able to find a way to get financials working like I wanted them to. I think that for future release(s): 1: AI improvement regarding financial decisions. 2: A salary cap that is hard with the AI understanding that. If you have a salary cap you might as well play with arbitration off. 3: Default settings regarding revenues and expense working correctly. In my current league which I am dead last in budget money with around $86 million. At least 15 million of that goes to player development, scouting, and personnel. (20 team league, no divisions or sub leagues, top 4 make playoffs, one level of minors and HS feeders) I need to give myself roughly 3 million in wiggle room for unexpected expenses for trades or whatever. Even though I have a budget of $86 mil, only $68 really go to players. I think the AI has a very hard time understanding that budget =/ player payroll limit. The team that just won the championship has a budget of $192 mil (good for 4th overall. Highest is 252 mil. My league has its own version of the yankees). League average salary is 3.1 mil. MLB average for opening day of 2011? 3.3 mil. My financials aren't exactly in line with MLB, but it is realistic enough for me to enjoy.

11-21-2011, 04:26 PM	#31
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	Did not reduce scouting. Did not reduce other expenses. Did not raise cash max. Did not change the database file. I simply supplied additional average revenue to my league. I do not have to make any yearly adjustments.

11-26-2011, 04:53 PM	#32
Mike Donlin All Star Reserve Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Life, friends, is boring. Posts: 840	Going back to 11. Mecza, even these settings did not work if you sim far enough into the future. What a shame.

11-26-2011, 06:12 PM	#33
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	How far? I did a 20 year test sim just now with a brand new fictional league and it all worked fine. 18/20 teams are in the black. I don't know what to tell ya...

11-26-2011, 07:51 PM	#34
PSUColonel Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 13,106	I am testing with different settings, and think I may have found a way to correct the problems. First these settings.. I need someone to test multiple seasons using each of these settings. I think I have made a lot of progress here, but I need to compare notes with others who have tried these as well. Now try the same setting with the exception of the National Media Contract as "the same for all teams" Compare the two, and let me know what you think.

11-26-2011, 09:13 PM	#36
Mecza Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 268	Have you considered that you may have too may feeders? Are these free agents replacement level or stars? The fact that most teams are in the black tells me that teams HAVE money to spend, but they choose not to. To me, it sounds like a case of the players in free agency aren't that good and the AI is signing players mid-season to account for injuries or additional depth. My free agent classes see most quality players signed at most by spring training. A player or two trickles past that date, but it can be due to recovering from an injury or just negotiating for ages.

11-27-2011, 08:15 AM	#38
Tullius Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 212	I have not read the whole thread. Maybe the overall quality of all players in the league is too high so that AI teams have no desire to sign a high priced FA ? Some time ago i have read an advice that a "modern day injury" setting helps to prevent that you have too many high quality players.