OOTP13: Is some kind of in-game graphics engine still on the table?

[OakDragon]

[QUOTE=Bigrod;3211309]

Originally Posted by blueturf

That's quite a tease you put out there. My ultimate wish was that there was some type of audio PbP included, but I realize with the vast amount of variables that could be included with fictional leagues, this is not as easily achieved as in text games of the past.QUOTE]
I asked Markus about this earlier this year when I submitted the 2011 schedules and he said it was doable and to remind him later, however, since things were so hurry hurry this year in beta, I didn't bother as I felt he had more important things than this to contend with. All the game needs is to recognize a "play" command/trigger in the pbp. Then it would be up to modders to do the actual audio recording for it. I've already got that covered. I even have "voice imitator software" which should allow you to make the recordings sound like your favorite announcers voice. As for fictional leagues, it's just a matter of recording the team name/nickname, city name, player name if different from what's already in the game. Easily done in a few minutes. I really think this would add immensely to the immersion and to the game itself. Just my 2cs.

Anyone remember the artificial speech generated player introductions in MicroLeague II? (At least, it was in the Mac version; I don't know about the PC one.) It had introductions that you could edit with a phonetic text-to-speech system. I would LOVE to have something like that in OOTP.

[Peterk]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Just wondering how repetitive this would get?

Shouldn't be repetitive at all, which is the big advantage over play by play.

I wouldn't select from a database though, I'd generate at runtime.

If OOTP says that a play is a ground out to the shortstop that is close, there should almost be an infinite number of ways of generating a hit ball that does that.

Pick the spot within the fielder's range where he gets the ball at random and have him run there. Choose a random way of getting the ball to that spot in time.

[Killebrew]

Originally Posted by Peterk

I wouldn't select from a database though, I'd generate at runtime.

Generate exactly what at runtime? Something from a new graphics engine built for OOTP?

I think the repetitive question was about a dramatically simpler design idea using sequenced images/animations for plays (like in BB Mogul, flash games, etc.). Those animations would definitely get repetitive even with the ball animation being a separate layer:-). The repetition is part of the reason I'd have no interest in that enhancement. Regular users would likely turn it off after awhile, but it would be something that might allow OOTP to stand out a bit more to new customers (and reviewers).

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by Cryomaniac

Exactly. The obvious simple (some might also say "cheap") way to do a graphics engine is to animate each play outcome, then simply pick the correct animation from a database. I don't have the time or inclination (or indeed a copy of Adobe Flash) to make a gif of the sort of thing I mean, but hopefully it's not too difficult to understand.

Did you order the code red?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Peterk]

Ah....read the original post too quickly. I thought the original suggestion was to load 3-D animations from a pre-built database.

[silvam14]

Wow, some good ideas in this thread, also a lot more positive reaction than I was expecting.

I think some more options for the players photos using facegen would be an awesome addition as well!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AESP_pres]

Originally Posted by Charlie Hough

It's unbelievable to me that anyone with an IQ above shoe size could actually be afraid that OOTP is going to be turned into an arcade game or that the addition of graphics will somehow destroy the game engine and cause compatibility issues.

I don't think your insult was volontary as it isn't your style at all. But I don't think I've a low IQ because I wrote that graphic cause compatibility issues as they do. Even when the sound was added to the game it did cause a lot of problem for some. So it isn't "a proof of mental ******ation" to believe that it will be the same with the graphic...

[Nugget699]

I don't understand (and I mean that genuinely, not to facetious) how people can say that a graphics engine will mean OOTP will have new customers.

Most people either love or hate sports management games. It's a niche market that will never become mainstream. If anything the opposite will happen and Markus will have more people moaning because they didn't read any reviews and just bought the game going off of the graphics and thought it was another MLB The Show clone.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Nugget699

Most people either love or hate sports management games. It's a niche market that will never become mainstream.

Tell that to Sports Interactive. They sell a million copies of their soccer management game world-wide each year.

The only problem is that US customers so far haven't discovered their love for such games yet. Hopefully this will change some day. It's just a different culture of gaming at the moment...

[OutS|der]

Originally Posted by Nugget699

I don't understand (and I mean that genuinely, not to facetious) how people can say that a graphics engine will mean OOTP will have new customers.

Most people either love or hate sports management games. It's a niche market that will never become mainstream. If anything the opposite will happen and Markus will have more people moaning because they didn't read any reviews and just bought the game going off of the graphics and thought it was another MLB The Show clone.

I can stat for a fact that 3D graphics caused people to by Football Manager. I used to run the game at work and when it was 2D people would come by take a look and most if not all would keep on walking but when it went 3D people would walk by and stop and stare then ask what game is that, i know a few who went and bought the game from watching me play it that would never have bothered if they didn't see the graphics first.

[risp2out]

Just to add a voice to the sentiments being expressed here, I've been playing OOTP since version 9. I love it. (My wife would probably say "obsessed with it.") I play out most of my teams' games and would love a graphics component. I don't care for arcade-style games and I don't want to "be" the pitcher or the batter or anything else. But I'd be thrilled to watch the play unfold along with the text.

I'm sure I'll continue to play OOTP and buy the next version with or without a graphics engine, but I sure would be excited to see one. I don't think it needs to change anything about the way transactions are carried out or about the way play results are calculated. But it would be exciting to watch and add enjoyment to what is already non-stop fun. And, yes, please add a stadium editor!

FWIW.

[risp2out]

Another thought. I'm not convinced by the "no new features until it's perfect" argument. It sounds like someone saying, "I don't want a coffee maker that has an automatic timer and a carafe until they fix that damn thing where sometimes the grounds spill out of the filter." Yup, sometimes the grounds spilled out of my old coffee maker and sometimes they spill out of my newer one. Annoying. But I'm still glad my new one has the nice features. (Can't play OOTP without my coffee. )

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Tell that to Sports Interactive. They sell a million copies of their soccer management game world-wide each year.

The only problem is that US customers so far haven't discovered their love for such games yet.

That's part of it. But I think the biggest part of it is that football is pretty much a religion in most of the world, and the only real pro sport in town. In North America, it's different. There are the "big four" sports that each have its own devoted followers. That divides the potential market up quite a bit. If baseball was as revered in North America the way football is elsewhere in the world, I think things would be different. (The closest thing to the way football is revered in most of the world involving another sport would be hockey in Canada. Here, that sport is pretty much a religion for most folks.)

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

(The closest thing to the way football is revered in most of the world involving another sport would be hockey in Canada. Here, that sport is pretty much a religion for most folks.)

NFL in the US maybe? Have a look at the projected $$ for the upcoming TV deal (2014). Those are fairly religious numbers.

[Bigrod]

[QUOTE=OakDragon;3212055]

Originally Posted by Bigrod

Anyone remember the artificial speech generated player introductions in MicroLeague II? (At least, it was in the Mac version; I don't know about the PC one.) It had introductions that you could edit with a phonetic text-to-speech system. I would LOVE to have something like that in OOTP.

OOTP already has text to speech abilities. You can enable them in the app.cfg file. Player intros can also be used. I did them for all of mlb teams for ootp 11. You can easily create your own if you run windows using sound recorder or dl mine and use a sound editing program to cut and paste to create your own. There available on Padresfan's site. There's both home and away intros included.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Tell that to Sports Interactive. They sell a million copies of their soccer management game world-wide each year.

The only problem is that US customers so far haven't discovered their love for such games yet. Hopefully this will change some day. It's just a different culture of gaming at the moment...

I have to say that I have been puzzled by this issue too. I love Football Manager, I think it is a briiliantly done sports sim, I love the improved game graphics -- and I don't miss in-game action in OOTP one bit. It's probably because I grew up listening to baseball on the radio -- the Cubs and White Sox on WGN, the Cardinals on KMOX, the Braves yes, the Braves, on WTMJ, etc.) So for me the experience of baseball is so deeply tied to listening to it on radio, which the PbP wonderfully reproduces. But I am happy with the claim made by many other people here that some kind of in-game graphics would expand the market. If that helps, then I'll toast it and buy it.

But why is it that the culture of sports sims is so different in Europe and North America? The only thing I can imagine is that EA has such a powerful presence in the market for American sports, and especially in American football, that their arcade-type presentation defines what a sports sim is for a large share of the market. There's nothing comparable to that in Europe. (Riffing on LGO's theme above, I suppose)

[thbroman]

I just looked at my post above again and realized that it was kind of all over the place.
What I meant to say in response to Markus was that EA so dominates the sports sim market in the USA that it's possible that people automatically expect a sports sim to be an arcade-control game. Thus a text-bsed sim like OOTP looks the wrose by comparison, although it's a vastly superior simulation.
In agreement with LGO, I think the allegiance to sports in North American is more divided and therefore so too is the market for games. This is all the more imortant because I suspect that most people play Football Manager for its updated database of current players. Thus FM might be popular because it substitutes for fantasy sports of the kind oyou have in the USA.
Just speculating, of course. . . .

[hluraven]

I'm not sure I fully agree with either that football is the only sport in Europe or that EA and arcade games are not comparable.

The FIFA series is EA's arcade football and along with rival PES are arcade versions of football that outsell the management games. Similar to some here, it can be generalised that the younger generation is much more in to the arcade versions, and the elder generations still preferring the management games that have been around since the 80s with limited graphics.

The main difference I can see is that nearly all football management games concentrate solely on taking over a real team now and playing into the future. Taking a historic team or a fantasy team is as good as unheard of and holds absolutely no interest to the vast majority of gamers. (EDIT: Referring to FM gamers and equivalent in other sports). This is where I can see the challenge as to have every historical era as well as all possible fictional setups working well must be a coding nightmare and I am sure if we just had the modern ML option there would be less bugs and a lot more chance of spare coding time to add graphics et al.

Not really sure of the relevance to much of that but there you go

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by hluraven

I'm not sure I fully agree with either that football is the only sport in Europe or that EA and arcade games are not comparable.

The FIFA series is EA's arcade football and along with rival PES are arcade versions of football that outsell the management games. Similar to some here, it can be generalised that the younger generation is much more in to the arcade versions, and the elder generations still preferring the management games that have been around since the 80s with limited graphics.

really? EA's FIFA game outsells Football Manager? wow. If it's anywhere near as bad as their baseball and (American) football games, that's kind of amazing.

Originally Posted by hluraven

The main difference I can see is that nearly all football management games concentrate solely on taking over a real team now and playing into the future. Taking a historic team or a fantasy team is as good as unheard of and holds absolutely no interest to the vast majority of gamers. (EDIT: Referring to FM gamers and equivalent in other sports). This is where I can see the challenge as to have every historical era as well as all possible fictional setups working well must be a coding nightmare and I am sure if we just had the modern ML option there would be less bugs and a lot more chance of spare coding time to add graphics et al.

This makes sense to me. By the way, I happen to be one of those astonishing few who plays the fictional/fantasy version of the FM. I know that Christian Ronaldo is playing for someone or other up there in the upper echelons of the soccer world, but down where my team begins its epic quest for the Premiership, it doesn't matter!

[Lusche]

Originally Posted by thbroman

really? EA's FIFA game outsells Football Manager? wow. If it's anywhere near as bad as their baseball and (American) football games, that's kind of amazing.

I think the console version of fifa 12 sold 4mio in the first 2 weeks and thats without pc sales and only counting xbox360 and ps3 ...

and I think its worse than madden