changing a schedule

[splinter9]

Before I did this I thought I would ask, does it hurt anything to change a schedule in the middle of the year (rainouts...) and as long as I schedule the games far enough apart in a single day,so they dont overlap, will doubleheaders work?

thanks

[Le Grande Orange]

No, it shouldn't matter, as long as you make changes to a day before any other games for that day have been played/simmed (just to be safe).

Doubleheaders do work, in that the game won't crash or anything like that. However, there may be some problems displaying the two games on some screens (on those that weren't designed to fit two games for the same team on the same day), and of course the AI may not handle the rosters correctly in terms of pitcher usage and such. You'd have to do a bit of testing to see if a twin bill causes any serious problems in this regard.

And yes, make sure you leave enough time between each game of the doubleheader. Folks who tried twin bills in OOTP4 found that 4 hours between game start times was usually enough.

I've asked that doubleheaders get officially supported in OOTP, rather than the unofficial status they have currently. Having fully working and completely reliable doubleheaders would mean being able to use the real, actual past MLB schedules for historical leagues (since in the past MLB used to play A LOT of doubleheaders).

[fearofmimes]

A couple notes on doubleheaders...

I've found that they don't really work with OOTP when you are simming the games (as in simming a day or more at a time). First, only one of the games will count in the standings and the statistics might be screwed up (or at least the box scores are screwed up).

This is a real problem and my number one complaint with OOTP.

Take a look at the following box scores for a doubleheader that I tried:

<pre>
1 Game No.: 63.
1 4/19/1932:
1 New York (A) at Boston (A)

~

6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
3 New York (A) 0 1 0 1 2 0 2 3 0 9 14 0
3 Boston (A) 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 11 1

~

6 New York (A) AB R H BI BB K AVG
§830.htm $ D. Wells§ SS 6 3 2 2 1 0 .548
§631.htm $ H. Beaudette§ RF 4 0 1 2 0 0 .440
§948.htm $ S. Kea§ 2B 6 1 2 1 0 1 .424
§744.htm $ C. Barnett§ 3B 6 0 2 1 0 0 .459
§59.htm $ P. Trudel§ CF 5 0 1 1 0 1 .367
§72.htm $ J. Morgan§ C 5 1 1 1 0 0 .375
§78.htm $ R. Wilson§ LF 5 1 3 1 0 1 .353
§473.htm $ J. Peck§ 1B 6 1 1 0 0 1 .400
§878.htm $ G. Rudy§ P 4 2 2 0 0 0 .222

Totals: 47 9 15 9 1 4

6 BATTING:
6 Doubles:
1 P. Trudel (4, 2nd inning off Goldenberg, 0 on, 1 out.) R. Wilson (1, 2nd
1 inning off Bewley, 1 on, 2 out.) G. Rudy (1, 5th inning off Bewley, 0 on,
1 0 out.)
6 Triples:
1 D. Wells (2, 5th inning off Bewley, 1 on, 0 out.) S. Kea (2, 8th inning off
1 Sheeran, 1 on, 2 out.)

6 Runs Batted In:
1 D. Wells 2 (8), H. Beaudette 2 (11), S. Kea (10), C. Barnett (10)
1 P. Trudel (8), J. Morgan (7), R. Wilson (2)

6 Sacrifice Flies:
1 H. Beaudette 2 (3), P. Trudel (1), J. Morgan (2)



6 Boston (A) AB R H BI BB K AVG
§748.htm $ H. Blankenship§ RF 7 1 3 0 0 1 .353
§474.htm $ W. Christopher§ 1B 7 0 3 1 0 1 .405
§820.htm $ J. Morrison§ CF 6 1 2 0 1 0 .176
§522.htm $ J. Moser§ SS 5 1 2 3 0 0 .258
§435.htm $ W. Gump§ 2B 6 0 2 0 0 0 .333
§58.htm $ J. Stender§ LF 5 0 3 0 0 1 .345
§253.htm $ C. Hendley§ C 5 0 1 0 0 2 .179
§97.htm $ D. Gerrish§ 3B 5 1 1 0 0 0 .240
§545.htm $ W. Bewley§ P 2 0 0 0 0 1 .000
§71.htm $ E. Sheeran§ P 1 0 0 0 0 1 .000
§512.htm $ M. Baker§ PH 1 0 0 0 0 0 .286

Totals: 50 4 17 4 1 7

6 BATTING:
6 Doubles:
1 W. Christopher (2, 3rd inning off Uchida, 0 on, 0 out.) D. Gerrish (1, 2nd
1 inning off Rudy, 0 on, 0 out.)

6 Homeruns:
1 J. Moser (1, 1st inning off Rudy, 2 on, 1 out.)

6 Runs Batted In:
1 W. Christopher (6), J. Moser 3 (7)

6 Stolen Bases:
1 W. Christopher (4)


6 FIELDING:
6 Errors:
1 J. Moser (4)



~

6 PITCHING:

6 New York (A) IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
§878.htm $ G. Rudy§ W 11 16 4 4 0 7 164 96 1.80 2-0

6 Boston (A) IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
§545.htm $ W. Bewley§ 5 7 4 4 0 2 69 41 4.61
§71.htm $ E. Sheeran§ L 4 7 5 4 1 1 62 36 6.10 1-1

~

1 Time: 3:42
1 Attendance: 34991 (35000) Bat Day
1 Weather: Partly cloudy (54 degrees), wind blowing left to right at 20 mph
1 PLAYER OF THE GAME: Douglas Wells



1 Game No.: 64.
1 4/19/1932:
1 New York (A) at Boston (A)

~

6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 R H E
3 New York (A) 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2 5 1
3 Boston (A) 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 2 3 13 0

~

6 New York (A) AB R H BI BB K AVG
§830.htm $ D. Wells§ 2 0 0 0 0 1 .515
§631.htm $ H. Beaudette§ 1 1 0 0 1 0 .423
§948.htm $ S. Kea§ 4 1 1 0 0 0 .405
§744.htm $ C. Barnett§ 3 0 0 0 0 0 .425
§59.htm $ P. Trudel§ 1 0 0 1 1 0 .355
§72.htm $ J. Morgan§ 3 0 2 0 0 1 .407
§78.htm $ R. Wilson§ 3 0 1 1 0 1 .350
§473.htm $ J. Peck§ 3 0 0 0 0 0 .368
§878.htm $ G. Rudy§ 0 0 0 0 0 0 .222
§205.htm $ R. Horton§ 0 0 0 0 0 0 .100
§641.htm $ A. Uchida§ 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§814.htm $ N. Radke§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§386.htm $ J. Wisniewski§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§645.htm $ J. Eckles§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§994.htm $ K. Jefferson§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§381.htm $ S. Gelman§ P 1 0 0 0 0 0 .250

Totals: 21 2 4 2 2 3

6 BATTING:



6 Runs Batted In:
1 P. Trudel (9), R. Wilson (3)

6 Sacrifice Flies:
1 P. Trudel (2)


6 FIELDING:
6 Errors:
1 D. Wells (3)



6 Boston (A) AB R H BI BB K AVG
§748.htm $ H. Blankenship§ 2 0 1 0 0 0 .361
§474.htm $ W. Christopher§ 2 2 1 0 1 0 .410
§820.htm $ J. Morrison§ 3 0 1 0 1 0 .189
§522.htm $ J. Moser§ 2 1 0 0 1 0 .242
§435.htm $ W. Gump§ 2 0 1 1 1 0 .343
§58.htm $ J. Stender§ 4 0 1 2 0 0 .333
§253.htm $ C. Hendley§ 3 0 1 0 0 0 .194
§97.htm $ D. Gerrish§ 2 0 1 0 0 0 .259
§113.htm $ S. Goldenberg§ 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§71.htm $ E. Sheeran§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§327.htm $ B. Brookover§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§234.htm $ C. Garr§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§990.htm $ C. Brown§ P 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000
§239.htm $ K. Villacorta§ P 3 0 0 0 0 1 .000

Totals: 23 3 7 3 4 1

6 BATTING:
6 Doubles:
1 J. Morrison (1, 8th inning off Gelman, 1 on, 1 out.) J. Stender (2, 9th inning
1 off Gelman, 3 on, 1 out.)


6 Runs Batted In:
1 W. Gump (5), J. Stender 2 (3)

6 Sacrifice Hits:
1 J. Morrison (1)



~

6 PITCHING:

6 New York (A) IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
§878.htm $ G. Rudy§ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1.80
§641.htm $ A. Uchida§ 1 0 0 0 0 0 11 7 0.00
§814.htm $ N. Radke§ 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 4 2 0.00
§386.htm $ J. Wisniewski§ 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 4 2 0.00
§645.htm $ J. Eckles§ 0 1 1 0 0 0 8 5 0.00
§994.htm $ K. Jefferson§ 0 0 0 0 1 0 5 1 0.00
§381.htm $ S. Gelman§ L 3.2 6 2 2 3 1 67 34 2.84 1-1

6 Boston (A) IP H R ER BB K PI PS ERA RECORD
§113.htm $ S. Goldenberg§ 0 1 2 2 0 0 6 3 6.00
§71.htm $ E. Sheeran§ 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 3 1 5.91
§327.htm $ B. Brookover§ 0.1 0 0 0 0 0 5 2 19.29
§234.htm $ C. Garr§ 0 1 0 0 0 0 3 1 0.00
§990.htm $ C. Brown§ 0 1 0 0 0 0 2 1 0.00
§239.htm $ K. Villacorta§ W 5.1 1 0 0 2 3 60 35 0.00 1-0

~

1 Time: 2:46
1 Attendance: 31454 (35000)
1 Weather: Clear skies (59 degrees), wind blowing in from center at 13 mph
1 PLAYER OF THE GAME: Kevin Villacorta

~

</pre>

First note that the starting and winning pitcher for New York in game 1 was credited with 11 innings pitched even though the game was completed in 9 innings. Also note that this same pitcher was listed as the starting pitcher for game 2, but with 0 innings pitched. He actually pitched the first two innings (probably why he is credited with 11 innings in the first box score) before he was lifted for a pinch hitter, probably because he was tired after pitching the first half of the doubleheader.

There are more problems with the box scores (look at the innings pitched for both teams in the second game--they don't even balance out with innings pitched in the first game), but the main problem is that only one of the games appeared to count in the standings.

There does seem to be some workarounds, but they are not pleasant. One might be to sim each of the games individually when doubleheaders are present on the schedule, but this seems way too slow and prone to human error. Not sure if anyone else might have other more reliable workarounds. I have tried various gaps between games, but that still does not seem to affect my results.

[Le Grande Orange]

That's unfortunate, because I believe in OOTP 4 doubleheaders worked without these statistical problems; the only problem I remember reading about in the forums was the AI not handling the rosters that well with two games on the same day.

So it seems something was changed in 5 that has affected having two games in one day. Of course, this is true with other things as well, such as the workaround for adding a second league to a file by copying over some .dat files which worked in 4 but no longer works in 5.

It'd be nice if at least these doubleheader statistical glitches could get fixed...

[fearofmimes]

Actually, this is the same behavior that I observed in OOTP4. I would say that nothing has changed; it's just that the problems are subtle. I have observed exactly the same doubleheader behavior with both OOTP4 and OOTP5. I had high hopes that OOTP5 would at least address the issues somewhat, but my hopes were dashed.

It took me a while to notice the full scope of the problem with doubleheaders and it's not just one isolated issue:

1. When teams play two games on the same day, only one of the games will be counted in the standings. I have not worked with the problem enough to know which game (the first or the second) is counted and other what circumstances this occurs. I do know, however, that when you sim a day with a doubleheader, only one of the games will count in the standings. This seems to have happened regardless of the start times for the doubleheaders; I've tried it with both games scheduled to start at the same time and with 4 hours between games.

2. As noted previously, the statistics get screwed up when you sim the day for a doubleheader. I will do further testing to see if I can isolate the problem further.

3. The computer will use the same starting pitcher for both ends of the doubleheader occasionally.

4. I have not tested to see if other statistics are accumulated correctly for players in the games for doubleheaders, but since one of the games doesn't count in the standings it would seem logical that the statistics would not accumulate correctly as well.

I'm sure there are some other more subtle problems. I'm going to a small bit of further testing to see if I can somehow work around this behavior. This is based on my observation that when I play doubleheader games I don't experience the problems.

[Le Grande Orange]

That's interesting, because I'm sure I remember reading posts from people wanting to do doubleheaders in OOTP4 and stating that it seemed to work. Of course it's quite possible that either the posters never really did them or didn't look into the results enough to notice the problems.

In any event, keep up with the tests you're doing. Perhaps with enough hard info Markus might find a way to officially incorporate doubleheader support, or at least fix the statistical glitches.

Doubleheaders were really a big part of baseball in years past and ought to get full support. Besides, without that, all the historical schedules I gathered are largely useless, particularly since trying to edit the real MLB schedules to remove them is a large and complicated prospect. In fact, for some years, I expect it's probably downright impossible, as the twin bills were so tightly integrated in the schedules.

Maybe between the two of us we can start a campaign to get enough folks interested in seeing doubleheader support that Markus might consider fully implementing the idea...

[sporr]

We have something similar in Baseball Maelstrom with no statistical oddities at all. One day each season there is a team that plays 2 games on the same day against different teams. Both games count in the standings and there are no problems at all. I don't know why it would be different to have 2 games involving the same teams on the same day.