ootp12 killing online leagues - Page 2

RandyTiger · 08-08-2011, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Excellent idea - we bought OOTP12, over 3 months ago it was released, and now it's being suggested we play OOTP11 while we wait for 12 to be fixed. Ludicrous.

*sighs and walks away*

Carlton · 08-08-2011, 07:54 AM

OP's post was not harsh at all

and I am one who tells the commish every year...wait 4 months and let other online leagues become beta testers.

More complex the coding this game becomes, along, the more chance that one line will not jive with another

Bluenoser · 08-08-2011, 08:02 AM

I've been playing this game since version one, I know for a fact I've helped create a lot of sales for this game through word of mouth, I've supported it to the nth degree. I will continue to support it.

The OP of this post hit the nail on the head, OOTP12 has serious problems for online leagues, and not just converted ones. Funny how everytime someone has a complaint, they get told to do something else, anything but complain.

The suggestions made here are ridiculous - don't buy the game til 2 or 3 patches are released. Go back and play OOTP11. Don't be so harsh. I mean really, think about it for a minute.

Why would you release a game and 3 months later tell people to go back and play the previous version cause the one that was released 3 months ago isn't working yet?

Why would you release a game and then tell people to wait 2 or 3 patches before they can play it?

Why shouldn't a customer complain when they're not happy with a product? And I agree, some of the complaints on these forums are ridiculous too, but the OP kept his complaint very civil. His complaint certainly wasn't harsh.

I for one hope that these types of posts continue to get made on the forums. Sure, the fan boys will be all over you like they always are, but please continue with this type of post. It's good feedback even though it's been ignored for the most part.

I give OOTP12 a 9 out of 10 on every catagory except Online leagues, where it gets a 4.

silvam14 · 08-08-2011, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

I've been playing this game since version one, I know for a fact I've helped create a lot of sales for this game through word of mouth, I've supported it to the nth degree. I will continue to support it.

The OP of this post hit the nail on the head, OOTP12 has serious problems for online leagues, and not just converted ones. Funny how everytime someone has a complaint, they get told to do something else, anything but complain.

The suggestions made here are ridiculous - don't buy the game til 2 or 3 patches are released. Go back and play OOTP11. Don't be so harsh. I mean really, think about it for a minute.

Why would you release a game and 3 months later tell people to go back and play the previous version cause the one that was released 3 months ago isn't working yet?

Why would you release a game and then tell people to wait 2 or 3 patches before they can play it?

Why shouldn't a customer complain when they're not happy with a product? And I agree, some of the complaints on these forums are ridiculous too, but the OP kept his complaint very civil. His complaint certainly wasn't harsh.

I for one hope that these types of posts continue to get made on the forums. Sure, the fan boys will be all over you like they always are, but please continue with this type of post. It's good feedback even though it's been ignored for the most part.

I give OOTP12 a 9 out of 10 on every catagory except Online leagues, where it gets a 4.

Well, I'm sure the people of OOTPD take all of the criticism in stride.

Besides, I'm a firm believer that if you pay your money, that entitles you to say whatever you want about the game (within forum rules of course)

---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EdReed20 · 08-08-2011, 09:54 AM

We've been hanging out there to dry for a LOOOOOOONG time now. The unplayability of OOTP12 (OOOL or 'old way' - both are unplayable with scouting on) has been a source of frustration for a good 6-8 weeks now, and I just really wished that the developers would just give us an honest guess:

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO GET IT FIXED?

I'd be fine at this point if the answer were "4 weeks". Not the answer anyone would like to hear, but at least it's an answer.
If I wanted to hear evasive crap a la "oh yeah some other guy is working on that" or "it's a known issue. we're working on it" (which, frankly, is all you're getting atm from the OOTP developers), I'd watch a Republican Primary debate. I dont wanna hear evasive crap, I wanna hear actual answers. Even if the answer isnt what I wanna hear...

cody8200 · 08-08-2011, 11:42 AM

How many games support conversion from an existing save game to a new edition of the game? Basically none. It is unparalleled in the gaming market. It's hard. I understand the frustration. Just pointing out that fact.

Add in 30 different owners and settings and the complexity increases.

Alan T · 08-08-2011, 11:58 AM

I personally don't have a problem with anyone who purchases a product to feel they have a right to complain or vent when it does not work as expected.

I would like to suggest there are more productive ways to express that frustration though in hopes of trying to get the problem resolved.

I am not a tech support staff member (I occasionally help when they PM me asking for help with specific online issues that I have a pretty good knowledge on how it works). I was not a beta team member this year due to time constraints (I have done beta several years in the past however).. so I can't comment directly on issues relating to tech support or the beta process for OOTP12. I can however give an example of what I mean about a more productive way to vent when something is not working well.

The first time I saw OOTP12 was at the end of June at the same time that everyone else did (that was not part of beta). I was eager to try to get one of my leagues upgraded ASAP to it so began my testing. I don't jump in blindly into a new upgrade, I ran tests for several seasons, testing everything I could imagine. It did not take long for me to realize that it just wasn't ready. I understand they completely rewrote the way the online league backend works, but it clearly was not ready at release this year.

I was frustrated at first, but then decided instead of just venting my anger, I would try to put together a list of everything that was broken as well as detailed information on what was broken and why it was broken. I ended up reporting 23 different issues that were fundamentally breaking how online leagues worked. Probably the most critical ones were fixed shortly there after, and in the little over a month and a half since, probably 85% of the issues I reported have been resolved. I now find that OOTP12 works fine for my online league thankfully and I'm not having any major issues. (I have 2 smaller ones that I have work arounds for but nothing critical).

To use the online league scouting issue as an example.. I see people complaining that it has been broken for 8 weeks without anything being done to fix it, which I suppose is true, it has been broken since the game came out. It wasn't until July 20th that I personally actually understood that the problem was online related, and that was thanks to Marines making a post on that date explaining what was breaking (Scouting would break when he imported teams). At that point, I was able to reproduce the issue, and I dug in deeper, giving a deeper level of what actually was happening in the upload that was broken to the developers to try to get it fixed.

The reality of the scouting issue is that they probably have only been looking at it for a week to 17 days. (They have a larger number of "critical" issues than some may realize to fix). I don't know why it hasn't been resolved yet, I don't know if it is tougher to fix than some of the other issues that have been resolved, but I fully understand people's frustration with it not being fixed. I think my biggest regret though is that it took a month before it was fully explained what was broken or what wasn't working right for those leagues.

So, I guess what I am saying in the mean time is that I know everyone is frustrated, and they have a right to vent and I don't like seeing people saying otherwise. I know I've been more frustrated this year than many other previous years.. I do however see the promise of the new online system. Some members in my league already love the new way it works so much better than the old way. I am very hopeful that the developers will be able to resolve the bigger issues still out there, and once past this bump in the road, it ends up being an improvement over past years.

Marines990 · 08-08-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

The reality of the scouting issue is that they probably have only been looking at it for a week to 17 days. (They have a larger number of "critical" issues than some may realize to fix). I don't know why it hasn't been resolved yet, I don't know if it is tougher to fix than some of the other issues that have been resolved, but I fully understand people's frustration with it not being fixed. I think my biggest regret though is that it took a month before it was fully explained what was broken or what wasn't working right for those leagues.

Not to disrupt your great post, but I did identify the problem, submitted a ticket around the 7th or 8th of July. I also posted on the forum (3 different times) that there was a problem, each time posting more information as I found it. It wasnt until I spoke to you that someone actually tried to replicate the problem and understand exactly what was going on.

Knuckster · 08-08-2011, 01:16 PM

I am new to online leagues and one is already using 12 (after some initial kinks in updating files from within the game, these seem to have been ironed out). My other league is doing a transfer from 11 to 12 now.

So, anyway, what are the major problems that OOTP 12 has and that have not yet been fixed? Please don't convey your anger in a reply; that's been documented above. But what exactly are some of the ways OOTP does not work or is a "broken game." And does this apply mostly to online leagues, commissioners, and/or to solo play?

* I guess scouting is one issue? In what way exactly?

Alan T · 08-08-2011, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knuckster

I am new to online leagues and one is already using 12 (after some initial kinks in updating files from within the game, these seem to have been ironed out). My other league is doing a transfer from 11 to 12 now.

So, anyway, what are the major problems that OOTP 12 has and that have not yet been fixed? Please don't convey your anger in a reply; that's been documented above. But what exactly are some of the ways OOTP does not work or is a "broken game." And does this apply mostly to online leagues, commissioners, and/or to solo play?

* I guess scouting is one issue? In what way exactly?

As far as I am aware the two major issues that people are reporting problems with currently are:

- Online scouting leagues are having financial issues that either require alot of manual intervention from the commissioner or scouting turned off to continue.
- Some MLB quickstart leagues (not all) appear to be having an issue where PC users (not MACS) are hanging for a long period of time when loading the online league file.

As long as the league is using 12.3.22, most of the other major issues are ironed out. If there are any other critical issues, I am not aware of them. Now I can think of a good handful of nitpick items I would like fixed, but definitely not showstoppers.

OutS|der · 08-08-2011, 01:35 PM

i wonder do online leagues that import from 11 into 12 ever get the wrong country bug?

i can't import a single season without it. So i can understand the frustration as i haven't played a single game yet am stuck on 11.
real season will be over before i even get to start mine

damientheomen3 · 08-08-2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluenoser

Excellent idea - we bought OOTP12, over 3 months ago it was released, and now it's being suggested we play OOTP11 while we wait for 12 to be fixed. Ludicrous.

I went back to OOTPX when 11 had the prospect waiver bug, so it's not so bad!

But yeah, if someone is dissatisfied with an aspect of 12 that was working fine in 11, what's so bad about telling them to play 11 for a while until the issue is fixed?

damientheomen3 · 08-08-2011, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdReed20

We've been hanging out there to dry for a LOOOOOOONG time now. The unplayability of OOTP12 (OOOL or 'old way' - both are unplayable with scouting on) has been a source of frustration for a good 6-8 weeks now, and I just really wished that the developers would just give us an honest guess:

HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO GET IT FIXED?

I'd be fine at this point if the answer were "4 weeks". Not the answer anyone would like to hear, but at least it's an answer.
If I wanted to hear evasive crap a la "oh yeah some other guy is working on that" or "it's a known issue. we're working on it" (which, frankly, is all you're getting atm from the OOTP developers), I'd watch a Republican Primary debate. I dont wanna hear evasive crap, I wanna hear actual answers. Even if the answer isnt what I wanna hear...

The reason that they don't give definitive answers is because a bug could pop up while they work on the patch and that could delay the game a while. Sure, they could give a date and just tell us if there's a snag, but we've seen how well this board handles dissatisfaction...

And Markus also said September for the final patch.

tward13 · 08-08-2011, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

I went back to OOTPX when 11 had the prospect waiver bug, so it's not so bad!

But yeah, if someone is dissatisfied with an aspect of 12 that was working fine in 11, what's so bad about telling them to play 11 for a while until the issue is fixed?

Because, to explain it once again, you can't play a 2011 roster league with OOTP11.

Killebrew · 08-08-2011, 04:33 PM

Related question: Is there any discussion of making that delayed injury diagnosis feature optional? That feature is actually a downgrade for online leagues and it would be great to be able to make it an optional league setting.

Alan T · 08-08-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

Related question: Is there any discussion of making that delayed injury diagnosis feature optional? That feature is actually a downgrade for online leagues and it would be great to be able to make it an optional league setting.

I had not even heard of anyone having an issue with this. I am not overly familiar with this new feature (my online league plays with injuries off). What is happening here that is causing problems for your league?

Rebington · 08-08-2011, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killebrew

Related question: Is there any discussion of making that delayed injury diagnosis feature optional? That feature is actually a downgrade for online leagues and it would be great to be able to make it an optional league setting.

Agreed.

In solo leagues it's a nice feature (although needs some refinement - I think my trainer will know if a player has a career threatening fractured skull vs. a hamstring strain quite quickly!) but in 7 day sim online leagues it's can really screw up roster management.

Bluenoser · 08-08-2011, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebington

Agreed.

In solo leagues it's a nice feature (although needs some refinement - I think my trainer will know if a player has a career threatening fractured skull vs. a hamstring strain quite quickly!) but in 7 day sim online leagues it's can really screw up roster management.

Not sure I understand how it's screwing up roster management.

With the new system it takes a day or two to get the correct diagnosis if I'm not mistaken.

When an online league sims, and someone gets hurt on say day 2 of a 7 day sim, by the time the sim is complete and owners update, they have the diagnosis. If a guy gets hurt the last day of the sim, well, he's injured so you place him on the DL or leave him on the bench until the end of following sim when you get his diagnosis. Don't forget the DL is retroactive now so you're not losing DL time by waiting to put him there.

I can see where not having an immediate diagnosis might cause a bit of a problem, but other than that it's the same as before, you still have an injured player you have to deal with.

Am I missing something else?

damientheomen3 · 08-08-2011, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tward13

Because, to explain it once again, you can't play a 2011 roster league with OOTP11.

So pass the time trying to play another way. Jesus.

Killebrew · 08-08-2011, 07:20 PM

Re: Delayed injury diagnosis feature not a positive thing for online leagues....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I had not even heard of anyone having an issue with this. I am not overly familiar with this new feature (my online league plays with injuries off). What is happening here that is causing problems for your league?

It's not a deal breaker, but it still is a OOTP11-to-OOTP12 downgrade of the online league experience for users. Many leagues sim 2 weeks at a time, so in those cases where a team has an undiagnosed injury the owner has to wait two further weeks in the game before he knows what DL list the player belongs on, whether the player is just day to day, or if the team actually needs to trade for a long term replacement in case of a serious injury. I'm not sure how many average game days wait there is for a diagnosis but I suspect it's a large range since most injuries I've seen in my lone v12 online league show up as 'undiagnosed' when the sim is completed. These situations are obviously not the scenario's the feature was designed for, they are unrealistic and generally will be frustrating for online league owners. Making the delayed injury diagnosis an optional feature in OOTP12 would solve the issue.

08-08-2011, 07:54 AM	#22
Carlton Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,765	OP's post was not harsh at all and I am one who tells the commish every year...wait 4 months and let other online leagues become beta testers. More complex the coding this game becomes, along, the more chance that one line will not jive with another __________________ "I am at that stage of my life where I keep myself out of arguments. I am 100% self sufficient spiritually, emotionally & financially. Even if you say 1+1=5, you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. Enjoy!"

08-08-2011, 11:42 AM	#26
cody8200 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 2,436	How many games support conversion from an existing save game to a new edition of the game? Basically none. It is unparalleled in the gaming market. It's hard. I understand the frustration. Just pointing out that fact. Add in 30 different owners and settings and the complexity increases. __________________ Sharp Guys Web Design - Twitter: @sharpguysweb

08-08-2011, 11:58 AM	#27
Alan T All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mass. Posts: 1,963	I personally don't have a problem with anyone who purchases a product to feel they have a right to complain or vent when it does not work as expected. I would like to suggest there are more productive ways to express that frustration though in hopes of trying to get the problem resolved. I am not a tech support staff member (I occasionally help when they PM me asking for help with specific online issues that I have a pretty good knowledge on how it works). I was not a beta team member this year due to time constraints (I have done beta several years in the past however).. so I can't comment directly on issues relating to tech support or the beta process for OOTP12. I can however give an example of what I mean about a more productive way to vent when something is not working well. The first time I saw OOTP12 was at the end of June at the same time that everyone else did (that was not part of beta). I was eager to try to get one of my leagues upgraded ASAP to it so began my testing. I don't jump in blindly into a new upgrade, I ran tests for several seasons, testing everything I could imagine. It did not take long for me to realize that it just wasn't ready. I understand they completely rewrote the way the online league backend works, but it clearly was not ready at release this year. I was frustrated at first, but then decided instead of just venting my anger, I would try to put together a list of everything that was broken as well as detailed information on what was broken and why it was broken. I ended up reporting 23 different issues that were fundamentally breaking how online leagues worked. Probably the most critical ones were fixed shortly there after, and in the little over a month and a half since, probably 85% of the issues I reported have been resolved. I now find that OOTP12 works fine for my online league thankfully and I'm not having any major issues. (I have 2 smaller ones that I have work arounds for but nothing critical). To use the online league scouting issue as an example.. I see people complaining that it has been broken for 8 weeks without anything being done to fix it, which I suppose is true, it has been broken since the game came out. It wasn't until July 20th that I personally actually understood that the problem was online related, and that was thanks to Marines making a post on that date explaining what was breaking (Scouting would break when he imported teams). At that point, I was able to reproduce the issue, and I dug in deeper, giving a deeper level of what actually was happening in the upload that was broken to the developers to try to get it fixed. The reality of the scouting issue is that they probably have only been looking at it for a week to 17 days. (They have a larger number of "critical" issues than some may realize to fix). I don't know why it hasn't been resolved yet, I don't know if it is tougher to fix than some of the other issues that have been resolved, but I fully understand people's frustration with it not being fixed. I think my biggest regret though is that it took a month before it was fully explained what was broken or what wasn't working right for those leagues. So, I guess what I am saying in the mean time is that I know everyone is frustrated, and they have a right to vent and I don't like seeing people saying otherwise. I know I've been more frustrated this year than many other previous years.. I do however see the promise of the new online system. Some members in my league already love the new way it works so much better than the old way. I am very hopeful that the developers will be able to resolve the bigger issues still out there, and once past this bump in the road, it ends up being an improvement over past years. __________________ - Front Office Offseason League. (Fast Paced OOTP-X and OOTP11 leagues, sims one season every week)

08-08-2011, 01:16 PM	#29
Knuckster Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 56	exactly how is the game broken? I am new to online leagues and one is already using 12 (after some initial kinks in updating files from within the game, these seem to have been ironed out). My other league is doing a transfer from 11 to 12 now. So, anyway, what are the major problems that OOTP 12 has and that have not yet been fixed? Please don't convey your anger in a reply; that's been documented above. But what exactly are some of the ways OOTP does not work or is a "broken game." And does this apply mostly to online leagues, commissioners, and/or to solo play? * I guess scouting is one issue? In what way exactly? Last edited by Knuckster; 08-08-2011 at 01:21 PM.

08-08-2011, 08:02 AM	#23
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 14,496	I've been playing this game since version one, I know for a fact I've helped create a lot of sales for this game through word of mouth, I've supported it to the nth degree. I will continue to support it. The OP of this post hit the nail on the head, OOTP12 has serious problems for online leagues, and not just converted ones. Funny how everytime someone has a complaint, they get told to do something else, anything but complain. The suggestions made here are ridiculous - don't buy the game til 2 or 3 patches are released. Go back and play OOTP11. Don't be so harsh. I mean really, think about it for a minute. Why would you release a game and 3 months later tell people to go back and play the previous version cause the one that was released 3 months ago isn't working yet? Why would you release a game and then tell people to wait 2 or 3 patches before they can play it? Why shouldn't a customer complain when they're not happy with a product? And I agree, some of the complaints on these forums are ridiculous too, but the OP kept his complaint very civil. His complaint certainly wasn't harsh. I for one hope that these types of posts continue to get made on the forums. Sure, the fan boys will be all over you like they always are, but please continue with this type of post. It's good feedback even though it's been ignored for the most part. I give OOTP12 a 9 out of 10 on every catagory except Online leagues, where it gets a 4.

08-08-2011, 09:54 AM	#25
EdReed20 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 46	We've been hanging out there to dry for a LOOOOOOONG time now. The unplayability of OOTP12 (OOOL or 'old way' - both are unplayable with scouting on) has been a source of frustration for a good 6-8 weeks now, and I just really wished that the developers would just give us an honest guess: HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO GET IT FIXED? I'd be fine at this point if the answer were "4 weeks". Not the answer anyone would like to hear, but at least it's an answer. If I wanted to hear evasive crap a la "oh yeah some other guy is working on that" or "it's a known issue. we're working on it" (which, frankly, is all you're getting atm from the OOTP developers), I'd watch a Republican Primary debate. I dont wanna hear evasive crap, I wanna hear actual answers. Even if the answer isnt what I wanna hear...

08-08-2011, 01:35 PM	#31
OutS\|der Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: In A Van Down By The River Posts: 2,762 Infractions: 0/1 (1)	i wonder do online leagues that import from 11 into 12 ever get the wrong country bug? i can't import a single season without it. So i can understand the frustration as i haven't played a single game yet am stuck on 11. real season will be over before i even get to start mine

08-08-2011, 04:33 PM	#35
Killebrew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 3,326	Related question: Is there any discussion of making that delayed injury diagnosis feature optional? That feature is actually a downgrade for online leagues and it would be great to be able to make it an optional league setting.