Very Disappointed with OOTP12

[MNGrizzly]

I've been playing OOTP for about 10 years now, and I've enjoyed every new version I've tried... until this one.

When I saw the list of changes in this version, there wasn't much that really stood out, but there were a couple of small improvements that fixed things that had bugged me in the past, so I figure I'd give this one a try anyway.

I installed the game, created a league, and simmed one season. Here's a quick summary of that first season:

March 31st, 2011 - Quickly realized game had changed very little from OOTP11. Interfaces, reports, sim text, news items, etc.. Forget the 'new game' excitement wearing off quickly, it just flat out never felt like a new game, more like patch.

April 1st, 2011 - Went to look at Free Agents to try out the 'new' financial system. Maybe that's where all the new goodness was hidden. Targeted a guy I liked, opened a dialog with him, and he said "I want x." I say, "Perfect, I like x.", and hit the meet demand button. I find now for some reason I can no longer just submit the offer, I have to run it by him first, even though I'm just agreeing with what he asked me for. What the....?? Oh well, I say, at least it's a change from 11, let's just go with it. I ask him what he thinks of this contract I'm offering him, which is exactly what he asks for, and low and behold, he responds, "That's a terrible offer!!". ARGH! What is going on? I submit it the offer anyway, he signs it three days later. I immediately start longing for the 'old' financial system.

To be fair, this bug has since been fixed, but what the heck?? OOTP12 is not a very big overhaul of the previous release, and this thing was in beta testing for forever. I work with Class III medical devices for a living, and our complete test cycles aren't as long as this beta was... and they result in much cleaner software with a whole heck of a lot fewer people involved. Was there no targeted testing? How does something this obvious and simple to create ever get out the door? It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy for the quality of this product as a whole. What sorts of other more obscure bugs are lurking about waiting to rear their ugly heads? Luckily, I wouldn't have to wait long.

April 10th, 2011 - Finally start simming the season, and find out I shouldn't have spoken too soon about this being just like OOTP11. Look, here's something new, my sim is being interrupted by messages letting me know someone is hurt, but the game won't tell me what's wrong with them yet. It would like me to sim a few more days, so it can interrupt the sim again, just to tell me the guy's going to be day-to-day for 3 days. Sigh.... I look for a way to disable this new madness, but give up after not seeing anything. I just shake my head and plod ahead.

September 1st, 2011 - Having a terrific season, nothing can stop me now.

September 6th, 2011 - All-Star power-hitting infielder lost for 6 months to injury. Oh well, nothing new here, *#$@ happens.

September 15th, 2011 - #1 Starter lost for 5 weeks. Almost certainly going to miss at least the first two playoff series. Is this really happening?

September 30th, 2011 - Oooh. Another new screen. Playoff rosters? Ok, I dig it. Probably just a more formal/polished version of what was in the game previously, I think to myself. Anything that adds a little realism, is ok in my book. Hrm, it's telling me that I can add one replacement player because of the IF player I placed on the 60 day DL. Ok, great. Wait, it's not working... no matter what I do, it will not let me add another player to my playoff roster, despite the fact it says right there I can!! AUGH! I'm really starting to hate 12. Oh well, in we go with only 23 players on the roster. Thanks, OOTP12.

October 11th, 2011 - Well, that was a disaster. I'm out of the playoffs, I'm tired, and I'm angry. First night with OOTP12 not at all what I was hoping for. Time for bed, and we'll see what surprises OOTP12 has in store for tomorrow.

Sometime the next day - I fire up OOTP12, and prepare for my first offseason, maybe there's something new to find here. Click on "Continue Game", and... what's this? This OOTP12 game database was created by a previous version, and must be imported??!! No... no, it was not, you created it OOTP12, just last night even! Let me try again, maybe you were just confused. Nope, same message. Ok, as stupid as it seems, I'll try and import my OOTP12 saved game back into OOTP12.

45 minutes later - Import has finished, and.... the saved game you're attempting to load is corrupted. Of course it is. You know what... forget this. I can have just as much fun banging my head on the keyboard, and it doesn't cost me $30.

I think it's time for OOTP and I to part ways. Bottom line, the quality of OOTP12 is unacceptable.

[ryanivr]

Rick click and click add to playoff roster. That will work. Annoying, but it should work.

[ashantewarrier]

Originally Posted by MNGrizzly

I've been playing OOTP for about 10 years now, and I've enjoyed every new version I've tried... until this one.

When I saw the list of changes in this version, there wasn't much that really stood out, but there were a couple of small improvements that fixed things that had bugged me in the past, so I figure I'd give this one a try anyway.

I installed the game, created a league, and simmed one season. Here's a quick summary of that first season:

March 31st, 2011 - Quickly realized game had changed very little from OOTP11. Interfaces, reports, sim text, news items, etc.. Forget the 'new game' excitement wearing off quickly, it just flat out never felt like a new game, more like patch.

April 1st, 2011 - Went to look at Free Agents to try out the 'new' financial system. Maybe that's where all the new goodness was hidden. Targeted a guy I liked, opened a dialog with him, and he said "I want x." I say, "Perfect, I like x.", and hit the meet demand button. I find now for some reason I can no longer just submit the offer, I have to run it by him first, even though I'm just agreeing with what he asked me for. What the....?? Oh well, I say, at least it's a change from 11, let's just go with it. I ask him what he thinks of this contract I'm offering him, which is exactly what he asks for, and low and behold, he responds, "That's a terrible offer!!". ARGH! What is going on? I submit it the offer anyway, he signs it three days later. I immediately start longing for the 'old' financial system.

To be fair, this bug has since been fixed, but what the heck?? OOTP12 is not a very big overhaul of the previous release, and this thing was in beta testing for forever. I work with Class III medical devices for a living, and our complete test cycles aren't as long as this beta was... and they result in much cleaner software with a whole heck of a lot fewer people involved. Was there no targeted testing? How does something this obvious and simple to create ever get out the door? It doesn't give me a warm fuzzy for the quality of this product as a whole. What sorts of other more obscure bugs are lurking about waiting to rear their ugly heads? Luckily, I wouldn't have to wait long.

April 10th, 2011 - Finally start simming the season, and find out I shouldn't have spoken too soon about this being just like OOTP11. Look, here's something new, my sim is being interrupted by messages letting me know someone is hurt, but the game won't tell me what's wrong with them yet. It would like me to sim a few more days, so it can interrupt the sim again, just to tell me the guy's going to be day-to-day for 3 days. Sigh.... I look for a way to disable this new madness, but give up after not seeing anything. I just shake my head and plod ahead.

September 1st, 2011 - Having a terrific season, nothing can stop me now.

September 6th, 2011 - All-Star power-hitting infielder lost for 6 months to injury. Oh well, nothing new here, *#$@ happens.

September 15th, 2011 - #1 Starter lost for 5 weeks. Almost certainly going to miss at least the first two playoff series. Is this really happening?

September 30th, 2011 - Oooh. Another new screen. Playoff rosters? Ok, I dig it. Probably just a more formal/polished version of what was in the game previously, I think to myself. Anything that adds a little realism, is ok in my book. Hrm, it's telling me that I can add one replacement player because of the IF player I placed on the 60 day DL. Ok, great. Wait, it's not working... no matter what I do, it will not let me add another player to my playoff roster, despite the fact it says right there I can!! AUGH! I'm really starting to hate 12. Oh well, in we go with only 23 players on the roster. Thanks, OOTP12.

October 11th, 2011 - Well, that was a disaster. I'm out of the playoffs, I'm tired, and I'm angry. First night with OOTP12 not at all what I was hoping for. Time for bed, and we'll see what surprises OOTP12 has in store for tomorrow.

Sometime the next day - I fire up OOTP12, and prepare for my first offseason, maybe there's something new to find here. Click on "Continue Game", and... what's this? This OOTP12 game database was created by a previous version, and must be imported??!! No... no, it was not, you created it OOTP12, just last night even! Let me try again, maybe you were just confused. Nope, same message. Ok, as stupid as it seems, I'll try and import my OOTP12 saved game back into OOTP12.

45 minutes later - Import has finished, and.... the saved game you're attempting to load is corrupted. Of course it is. You know what... forget this. I can have just as much fun banging my head on the keyboard, and it doesn't cost me $30.

I think it's time for OOTP and I to part ways. Bottom line, the quality of OOTP12 is unacceptable.

Sorry you feel that way....I love OOTP12!

[GrantDawg]

Sorry to hear. Loving the new version, but to each his own. I have seen much bugger software from major companies with huge staffs costing twice as much. But, good luck with whatever you find next.

[Matty86]

I'm enjoying OOTP12, if you want to see a buggy piece of crap video game, go pick up the new Nascar game that came out a few months ago!

[mm7607]

I agree with OP, I don't like the player injured but will tell you in a few days. I'll also agree that I don't really see much difference with this game then with 11. Just a few small things here and there.

Most of the 'bugs' I've seen are some of the news stories. I had one guy out with a severely bruised forearm but he quoted as saying "When I bend my leg it's extremely painful."

[The Wolf]

OOTP 12 isn't perfect, but:

1. OOTP 12 the best computer baseball game you can buy. Period.

2. There is at least one and more likely two major patches yet to arrive for OOTP 12.

3. I paid thirty bucks for OOTP 12. Outside of the Civilization series and maybe the X3 series, OOTP is the most value in terms of gaming enjoyment divided by cost that I've been able to find, and I've been looking hard.

4. Not all games are a good fit with all gamers. IMO a bunch of the people who complain about OOTP on this board would be a lot happier with a PS3 and a copy of MLB The Show. You may be one of them.

I'm sorry that you don't enjoy OOTP 12. Personally I really enjoy it and really like the major improvements in it over OOTP 11. Good luck finding a game you do like.

[damientheomen3]

Actually, beta was much shorter this year than previous years.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by mm7607

I agree with OP, I don't like the player injured but will tell you in a few days. I'll also agree that I don't really see much difference with this game then with 11. Just a few small things here and there.

Most of the 'bugs' I've seen are some of the news stories. I had one guy out with a severely bruised forearm but he quoted as saying "When I bend my leg it's extremely painful."

But the delay in telling you injury time IS realistic. It's not as if the severity of every injury is immediately known in real life.

[Bowtie]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

OOTP 12 isn't perfect, but:

1. OOTP 12 the best computer baseball game you can buy. Period.

2. There is at least one and more likely two major patches yet to arrive for OOTP 12.

3. I paid thirty bucks for OOTP 12. Outside of the Civilization series and maybe the X3 series, OOTP is the most value in terms of cost divided by gaming enjoyment that I've been able to find, and I've been looking hard.

4. Not all games are a good fit with all gamers. IMO a bunch of the people who complain about OOTP on this board would be a lot happier with a PS3 and a copy of MLB The Show. You may be one of them.

I'm sorry that you don't enjoy OOTP 12. Personally I really enjoy it and really like the major improvements in it over OOTP 11. Good luck finding a game you do like.

I agree with Wolf. OOTP is by far the best baseball game I've ever played. I can name you one baseball game that is at the least 1 million times worse than OOTP and that is 2K Sports' Front Office Manager. I bought that game once, played it VERY little and vowed to NEVER purchase it again.

Am I disappointed that I can't hire the likes of Whitey Herzog, Don Zimmer or even Davey Johnson? Sure. BUT, am I going to let that deter me from enjoying what OOTP12 has to offer? Good grief no. This game just keeps getting better and better with each new release.

As Wolf said, OOTP isn't perfect but is sure comes closer to being perfect than any other baseball game for the price.

[endgame]

I didn't find the original post one of a vilifying nature, but one riddled with frustration in, regretfully, an honest portrayal of his experience. I'll assume the odd role, advocating a more open and inviting environment to hear these concerns. While I take the last line of the post, indicating a parting of the ways, with a grain of salt, rather than trumpet our glorious experiences with the game, we need to understand this could be the sentiment of a new user as well as one, like the OP, who is a veteran to the game. Unfortunately, that new voice typically chooses, IMHO, one of two paths: a scorching indictment that is a mixed bag of the baseless, lack of patience, and hyperbole OR they provide nothing at all in the way of feedback. Whether that means they sulk quietly in disappointment or begrudge the game for not meeting their expectations, we're deprived of what resides at the root of that frustration and consequently the opportunity to rectify, if necessary, or grow.

So, I'm disappointed that MNGrizzly had this experience. I'm equally thankful he took the time to share the experience in a straightforward way, absent of a hateful and genuinely bitter tone. Personally, I think he'll get back at it and try to put it together, try to make it work. It's what long-term OOTP'ers do, isn't it, remain faithful despite disappointment? We always recognize there's more work to be done. With all the respect they're due, I caution the evangelical to temper the zeal for the game with a sincere attempt to hear the gamer.

[mm7607]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

But the delay in telling you injury time IS realistic. It's not as if the severity of every injury is immediately known in real life.

I didn't say it wasn't realistic, I just said I don't like it. It needs some work. You shouldn't have to wait 3 or 4 days to find out a guy is day to day with a sore throat.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by endgame

With all the respect they're due, I caution the evangelical to temper the zeal for the game with a sincere attempt to hear the gamer.

Labeling those of us who really like the game as "evangelical" not just incorrect but pejorative. We are neither crusaders nor preachers of a gospel; we just like the game. Plus the assumption that we didn't pay attention to what the OP was trying to get across is both inaccurate and rather unkind.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by mm7607

I didn't say it wasn't realistic, I just said I don't like it. It needs some work. You shouldn't have to wait 3 or 4 days to find out a guy is day to day with a sore throat.

Which never happens.

What does happen in real life is this: pitcher complains of a sore shoulder, team decides to send him to a specialist to see if anything is seriously wrong, couple of days later team finds it's nothing and he can play again, or team finds it's a torn labrum and the pitcher needs surgery.

I don't know why people are complaining when the delayed diagnosis comes back as a 'day to day' injury. If it was always a torn labrum or ruptured UCL, what would be the point of delaying the diagnosis at all?

[WWBL Commissioner]

Originally Posted by endgame

I didn't find the original post one of a vilifying nature, but one riddled with frustration in, regretfully, an honest portrayal of his experience. I'll assume the odd role, advocating a more open and inviting environment to hear these concerns. While I take the last line of the post, indicating a parting of the ways, with a grain of salt, rather than trumpet our glorious experiences with the game, we need to understand this could be the sentiment of a new user as well as one, like the OP, who is a veteran to the game. Unfortunately, that new voice typically chooses, IMHO, one of two paths: a scorching indictment that is a mixed bag of the baseless, lack of patience, and hyperbole OR they provide nothing at all in the way of feedback. Whether that means they sulk quietly in disappointment or begrudge the game for not meeting their expectations, we're deprived of what resides at the root of that frustration and consequently the opportunity to rectify, if necessary, or grow.

So, I'm disappointed that MNGrizzly had this experience. I'm equally thankful he took the time to share the experience in a straightforward way, absent of a hateful and genuinely bitter tone. Personally, I think he'll get back at it and try to put it together, try to make it work. It's what long-term OOTP'ers do, isn't it, remain faithful despite disappointment? We always recognize there's more work to be done. With all the respect they're due, I caution the evangelical to temper the zeal for the game with a sincere attempt to hear the gamer.

Endgame, great post. I too have been very frustrated by this release. I've had the same "wrong version" issues, and this release has done some serious damage to my online league.

I will say that the tech support gets an A plus in my book for how they have helped me with these issues. But I agree that seems like with the time to test they could have been avoided.

[mm7607]

Originally Posted by injury log

Which never happens.

What does happen in real life is this: pitcher complains of a sore shoulder, team decides to send him to a specialist to see if anything is seriously wrong, couple of days later team finds it's nothing and he can play again, or team finds it's a torn labrum and the pitcher needs surgery.

I don't know why people are complaining when the delayed diagnosis comes back as a 'day to day' injury. If it was always a torn labrum or ruptured UCL, what would be the point of delaying the diagnosis at all?

Well after further review and a continuous 6 hours of playing, my wife is at a loss as to why, I am beginning to get the feel of it. The delayed aspect adds a little more variety to the game. So I am on the OK side of the fence on this one.

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by MNGrizzly

...and this thing was in beta testing for forever. I work with Class III medical devices for a living, and our complete test cycles aren't as long as this beta was... and they result in much cleaner software with a whole heck of a lot fewer people involved. Was there no targeted testing?...

Actually, there were 33 total days of beta testing and many of the testers who committed back in December got tired of waiting or just got busy when the Summer months came around. The result? Well as much as some of the beta testers went without sleep for those four plus short weeks, it was still not enough testing, in my book.

That said, there are a lot of new additions and improvements to the new version over the old. Not all of them are plainly visible or give you that "new game" feeling, but they are there. Now do they all work the way they are supposed to? Maybe not. But that's where feedback like yours is appreciated and can be helpful, especially in the absence of thorough beta testing.

[Lusche]

Originally Posted by injury log

Which never happens.

What does happen in real life is this: pitcher complains of a sore shoulder, team decides to send him to a specialist to see if anything is seriously wrong, couple of days later team finds it's nothing and he can play again, or team finds it's a torn labrum and the pitcher needs surgery.

I don't know why people are complaining when the delayed diagnosis comes back as a 'day to day' injury. If it was always a torn labrum or ruptured UCL, what would be the point of delaying the diagnosis at all?

you are saying it too ... he has a sore shoulder but nothing specific about injury diagnosis and duration ...
But you at least know he has a sore shoulder. Currently in the game the is no information which is not perfect.

[silvam14]

Originally Posted by MNGrizzly

When I saw the list of changes in this version, there wasn't much that really stood out, but there were a couple of small improvements that fixed things that had bugged me in the past, so I figure I'd give this one a try anyway.

I installed the game, created a league, and simmed one season. Here's a quick summary of that first season:

March 31st, 2011 - Quickly realized game had changed very little from OOTP11. Interfaces, reports, sim text, news items, etc.. Forget the 'new game' excitement wearing off quickly, it just flat out never felt like a new game, more like patch

I can share this sentiment. Im just chalking it up to a "cost of doing business" things that came with iootp (which i also purchased)

I just hope my $40 donation for 12 helps towards the creation of something spectacular in OOTP13



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thundercrack]

Originally Posted by silvam14

I can share this sentiment. Im just chalking it up to a "cost of doing business" things that came with iootp (which i also purchased)

I just hope my $40 donation for 12 helps towards the creation of something spectacular in OOTP13



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes to this. And it goes without saying by now that this is a great game and series, the best out there. But every time someone points out a flaw, the Guardians of the Game don't need to come charging to the rescue. Markus won't melt from a little criticism.